Inside Europe’s billion-dollar anti-gender movement

[BeeSouriante]

https://www.theparliamentmagazine.eu/news/article/inside-europes-billioneuro-antigender-movement

Figured that this would be more appropriate in here rather than the anti-trans forum. It's all kinda scary, particularly with Reform burgeoning and Labour larping as diet Reform.

I'm disappointed the "anti-trans forum" slur is allowed to stand, i did report it and am not happy that MN have ignored that

ETA: i think it has been moved to S&G so at least that

They now allow negative generalisations such as anti-trans to stand. I believe it works both ways though. I see that cult is now allowed to stand too.

that is disappointing. I have emailed about it - but i am not expecting a positive reply.

Does that mean we have to keep going in and saying that it is not anti-trans to be pro-woman? and that if that is what TRA s believe we have to keep pointing out that if they believe that, the reverse is also true and they believe pro-trans is anti-woman? that kind of thing? (I may put it in a text-file and c/p next time i need it, if that really is the case)

Off to the CSD later, will be interesting to see what form that takes in an ex-mining town with a large immigrant community.

Don’t bother reporting him. Operation Let Them Speak works. Having his posts deleted only plays into his oppression Olympics.

Thanks for the reminder of the wonderful Dorothy Parker, a personal favourite. It made me fantasise about how savage and unsparing she would have been had she been around to witness the current unpleasantness..

Certainly worked for me. Five minutes on Mumsnet and a whole 30 seconds on UK trans Reddit, and here I am.

You'll be on the wrong side whatever, unless you wholly submit to the trans ideology. Don't let it keep you up at night.

The sainted Sir Thomas More has been somewhat reconsidered recently, but I expect like all of us he was not wholly bad or good.

As for your fate - you do remember the "Decapitate Terfs" sign, yes?

So, back to my question, what is it you don't like about the gents?

Yes, @BeeSouriante come on spell it out. There are several transwomen who do use the gents so you wouldn't be alone and I am pleased to tell you that those transwomen using the gents haven't ceased to exist nor has anything untoward happened to them, So come on, what's your problem?

This diagram is so important I am re-posting it. Everyone needs to understand it (though many will wilfully misunderstand or feign ignorance).

There absolutely are socially conservative (right-wing on social issues) people, who believe that sex is immutable, that it is not possible to change sex.
BUT they also believe in gender roles for men and women, i.e. they are sexist and misogynistic.
Such people are at the very least "on the wrong side of history" (IMHO), if not outright dangerous.

The above group is obviously not the same as the feminist (mostly left-wing) group who ALSO believe that it is not possible to change sex, BUT believe "gender" is sexist nonsense.

It is a dishonest tactic to try and conflate the two on purpose. Only the ignorant and mis-informed fall for it.

Not sure why the diagram didn't appear?

It is actually grassroots women's groups in the UK that have been 'financing' the movement....courtesy of crowd-funding for court cases.

The Women's movement here is leading the way.....and it is actually the U.S which follows, albeit very incrementally, because the situation is so extreme and so well funded there. It is billionnaire dollars and pharmaceuticals that funds the trans rights movement in the U.S, as well as U.S Aid here ( which Stonewall have realised to their chagrin recently, since their funding has been cut).

It is very difficult for some to accept that a grassroots, passionate women's movement can achieve real political change...and that the committed resistance is finally paying off.Just a few years ago nobody was interested, and we were being told by our own parliament that there was " No Debate". We've come a long way since then.

You know, women are people too and they also have rights...they also happen to be lawyers, barristers, teachers, doctors, mental health practitioners, authors, journalists, athletes, nurses, civil servants, politicians, councillors, business owners, mothers, grandmothers and long time activists.

Are you holding Judith butler up as someone to listen to? 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂.

trans-exclusionary activists

I do precisely nothing to specifically exclude trans people from anything. You're barking if you think that's my aim.
By way of other criteria that require to be met, some people who happen to be trans will be excluded from things that aren't for them, just as people who happen to be ginger are, or people who support Fulham, or are goldfish-owners. People applying for a disabled rail pass maybe rejected and be trans. That isn't the reason for the rejection. People applying for senior bus pass may be rejected and be trans. That isn't the reason for the rejection.

If I exclude male people from female spaces, that's all male people, regardless of any other characteristic they may hold.

I do find it surprising that this is beyond the comprehension of some posters, but just because they don't understand fairly basic reasoning doesn't mean we are wrong.

If I exclude male people from female spaces, that's all male people, regardless of any other characteristic they may hold.
I do find it surprising that this is beyond the comprehension of some posters, but just because they don't understand fairly basic reasoning doesn't mean we are wrong.

Oh they understand alright. But they don’t have a coherent argument about keeping men out of female spaces so they pretend it’s all about being Trans. And wilfully ignore when told it’s actually all about being male.

i didn't want his post deleted, i wanted the "anti trans" slur redacted.
at least the thread got moved, which is good

I think what our busy busy Bee illustrates very well is the damage that bolting the un-related T onto LGB has caused to lesbian and gay rights.

Take Ireland as an example: only ten years ago, 62% of the electorate voted in favour of marriage quality, and lesbian and gay people were broadly integrated in Irish society - we had gay government ministers, even a gay prime minister, and they were as admired and hated as any other politician.

Then trans movement, in the form of a group called TENI [Trans Equality Network Ireland] swooped in to avail of the mood of acceptance, and started to 'do a Dentons' by setting themselves up as the representatives of the most marginalised group in society - not Travellers or unpaid carers or people with disabilities or anybody like that - no, trans people, of course!

No parliamentary committee was complete without their input, and the establishment bowed to them as the only source of knowledge on this latest oppressed group demanding to be liberated - and it had to be right now, no decades of campaigning for them!

A youth group called BelongTo carried out a similar role with the focus on children and young people.

Their input in the fields of education, legislation, medicine, media and even language was entirely disproportionate to the tiny tiny number of trans people in the population. It was accepted wholesale by the political establishment - not one single party opposed the introduction of the Gender Recognition Act.

'Lesbian and gay' became 'gay' became 'trans' became 'drag'.
'Gay' pride is dominated by trans imagery - how alienating to an insecure young gay boy or girl is the image of a grotesquely-made up caricature of a woman as the 'face' of your local Pride?

So now ten year after the referendum, there is talk of a rise in homophobia, but when you look closely, a lot [not all] of it is in fact public resistance to the tiny but noisy trans movement's disproportionate influence on public life. Any critique of transgenderism is described as 'anti-LGBTQ+', and resistance to the trans juggernaut can be presented inaccurately as transphobia and homophobia.

What does Bee think about* *having a clear, upfront, focused transgender movement, existing on its own merits rather than including itself incongruously in a movement which has campaigned for decades around sexual orientation, not gender identity?

It would be so much easier to see who is anti-gender stereotyping, who is anti-misogyny, who is anti-homophobia, and who is a right-wing bigot, instead of everybody getting lumped under the confused and unhelpful 'LGBTQ+' label.

Sorry, I don't speak emoji, are you able to provide a coherent argument instead? Sorry to be a pain

Like, I didn't post this on the S&G forum cos I didn't want this to be derailed by anti-trans sentiment, but it got moved here anyway despite the fact that it at no point mentions trans people. Honestly i don't care if you hate me for being trans, I'm asking you to look at this shit and how they plan to harm all of us.

You don't need to force team women, again. Gender critical women are well able to keep anti-gender people AND the TRAs/MRAs at arms lenth at the same time, because none of them act in women's interest.

Bee , do you know the story of the boy who cried wolf?

You spent the last few days spamming this forum with pretty bad faith takes and slurring female people defending their rights, their legal and social recognition, even their own fucking name as "anti trans" and "lizard brain hate".

And so this link, which does speak to far more than just the usual TRAs angry rant cos mummy says no, has not been given the focus that it should have been because all anyone sees now is Bee trying to link Leftist gender critical women with the far right yet again.

Yes, I am aware of these groups and they are a genuine threat to LGB people and to women. As I said in another reply to you, the abortion debate reopening in the UK is IMO part of a push to exploit tribalism that is not home grown but we are picking up from US dominated social media. And I think it's a real shame - no, a fucking stupid foot shooting tragedy - that the ridiculous purity spirals and unhinged demands of the genderist movement have split so many LGB and yes, even T people away from Feminists who should be your natural allies.

I would still like to be your ally Bee. I will stand up for your right to be as gender-unconforming as you want to be. But I cannot stand up for your right to be a woman Bee, not if condoning that means condoning the undefinition and removal of rights of the female half of the species.

Can you do it Bee? Can you compromise and allow female people to exist in our own right so we can be your allies?

@Shortshriftandlethal

It is actually grassroots women's groups in the UK that have been 'financing' the movement....courtesy of crowd-funding for court cases.
The Women's movement here is leading the way.....and it is actually the U.S which follows, albeit very incrementally, because the situation is so extreme and so well funded there.

I agree that the UK is leading the way, for many of the reasons you mention. I think the For Women Scotland case strikes the correct balance between women's and trans' rights. It's brilliant. Women owe a huge debt to Susan, Trina, Marion, JKR, everyone who helped crowdfund the case, and all those involved.

This may be tangential but it's key to understanding US politics and I think it's generally overlooked on Mumsnet. The USA will rarely be at the forefront of anything bc it's a federal system with fifty separate state governments that each have a lot of power to make and enforce laws. Almost always, the law on any given subject will be quite different in different states, though there are commonalities (e.g.all outlaw murder, all have adopted the Uniform Commercial Code). The UK has a unitary system with some devolved powers but those powers are weaker than the powers each of the fifty states retains under the US federal system. Plus Parliament can always withdraw devolved powers whereas the Tenth Amendment to the US Constitution says

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

Having a Parliamentary system as opposed to the separation of powers in the US also makes it easier to pass legislation. Some US cities or states may be occasionally be a world leader in specific legislation but those tend to be Democratic (US party) states like California, New York, or Vermont and, on this issue, the Democrats are firmly on the side of trans rights over women's rights.

Terf Island leads the way on this issue.

No one hates you for being trans. We don’t like you because you pop on here to scold women, grab screenshots for women and never back up your scoldings with actual evidence or data. Apart from that, I’m sure you’re a jolly nice bloke.

I don't think anyone here wants to rehash discussions about Judith Butler yet again. A quick search of the board should fill you in.

Or, as the TRAs used to say, educate yourself. They seem to have given up saying it, because there is nothing like discovering the gobbledegook of Judith Butler, the details of the Isla Bryson incident and the transing of children for peaking someone...

If you come on a forum and repeatedly sneer and smear at women, calling us names and accusingly of all sorts of nonsense, we are unlikely to pay any attention even if you subsequently post something reasonable.

This is called consequences.

I'm not clicking on your links.

I'm not sneering at anyone, but OK. Have a lovely day.