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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
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5
miraxxx · 26/06/2025 12:55

FlirtsWithRhinos · 26/06/2025 12:26

@miraxxx

I find it amusing that many other ignorant remarks about caste, marital rape etc are being made about India.

I posted the news story about marital rape being legal in India. Would you like to expand on why that is amusing to you? What cultural nuance have I missed that makes marital rape ok?

What is amusing are the voices of authority dripping with utter contempt when western feminists pounce on India - a country where a woman does actually have more rights than a dog- but coyly avert their eyes from the dozens of muslim countries with far worse laws against women and gays. Or even from mass rape grooming gangs in their own country. There is nothing amusing about rape, marital or otherwise.

Helleofabore · 26/06/2025 13:09

Why do you think that India should be followed in terms of its treatment towards women and girls OP?

Did you actually think about what you posted before you posted it? Or is this another plop and run post that will show that you are not in the slightest interested in engaging but are set to broadcast only?

FlirtsWithRhinos · 26/06/2025 13:55

miraxxx · 26/06/2025 12:55

What is amusing are the voices of authority dripping with utter contempt when western feminists pounce on India - a country where a woman does actually have more rights than a dog- but coyly avert their eyes from the dozens of muslim countries with far worse laws against women and gays. Or even from mass rape grooming gangs in their own country. There is nothing amusing about rape, marital or otherwise.

Since I haven't done any of that i will assume your comments are not directed at me.

MarieDeGournay · 26/06/2025 14:22

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 26/06/2025 11:12

I think Ireland, having spent so long in the stranglehold of the Catholic Church, is just used to misogynistic religions, which is why it has been particularly vulnerable to gender ideology.

The idea that women should have agency over their own bodies and lives isn't as deeply ingrained in Ireland as it is in the UK. They tolerated Magdalene laundries until the 1990s and a lack of abortion rights until very recently, so is it all that surprising that they will also tolerate women not having the right to say no to men who say they are women?

Ireland also spent so long in the stranglehold of colonialism, and so was used to people being discriminated against, and killed in great numbers, because of who they were.

It has only been an independent nation for a short time - Free State in 1922, Republic in 1948 - so it's hardly comparable to the UK which had a bit of a head start, and also had the advantage of not being occupied by a foreign power for centuries.

Ireland is a complex case, because as well as keeping the population in a 'stranglehold', the Catholic religion was also a source of consolation, strength, cultural identity, and social care during centuries of occupation and hardship, so it was always going to be difficult to unpick its hold after independence.

It may indeed have left a gap in the national psyche that any old woo can fill🙄

There are similarities between India and Ireland as ex-colonies, and being too ready to accept genderwoo might well be one of them.

LeftieRightsHoarder · 26/06/2025 14:42

SirChenjins · 26/06/2025 09:37

I wonder if India would be so supportive of someone in the lowest caste identifying into a higher one? 🤔

Excellent question 🤣 — and the answer shows how patriarchy always favours the already privileged.

It’s like this country allowing trans-identifying men to use women’s services, take women’s sports prizes, demand their rape victims call them “she” in court and be put in women’s prisons. But trans-identifying women can’t inherit titles and estates that are meant for male heirs.

Everyone knows what men and women are when it matters. Which means when it’s to men’s advantage.

FlirtsWithRhinos · 26/06/2025 15:33

It's basically power. If you are member of a group who has political, social, military or economic power over another group you can force your way into that group and force them to say "yes". If you are in the lower power group you can't force your way into a higher power group and force society to accept you as such in practice.

Obvious really, because if you could there wouldn't be any higher power groups since everyone lower power would jump up!

Justwrong68 · 26/06/2025 15:47

pourmeadrinkpls · 26/06/2025 09:31

India has always had trans people since I remember, it's been very normal and as far as I'm aware they're not intimidating to other woman. Maybe this is why it's different there. I remember going there at 7 in the late 80s and being confused at men wearing saris and bindis, no one batted an eyelid, had never seen anything similar in the UK. Similar with Pacific Island cultures, they're just an accepted and non threatening part of society.

There’s no such thing as a non threatening part of society. You mean they’re not attracted to women. We’d like to exclude all men from women’s spaces, including homosexual ones.

moto748e · 26/06/2025 16:07

'See all posts by OP'. Just the one, then. Quelle surprise!

BeeSouriante · 26/06/2025 16:49

FlirtsWithRhinos · 26/06/2025 09:03

@BeeSouriante But what do you think about the link you posted?

I think it's great news, obviously and embarrassing for the UK, particularly after it's falling behind the rest of Western Europe in terms of queer rights.

Why do you care what I think? I'm a transsexual woman - one of those evil people you spend all your available hours in seething hate about (in many cases for years), obviously I'm going to be pleased that my trans siblings get more legal recognition.

OP posts:
Greyskybluesky · 26/06/2025 16:51

"one of those evil people you spend all your available hours in seething hate about (in many cases for years)"

This is honestly hilarious

PrettyDamnCosmic · 26/06/2025 16:54

BeeSouriante · 26/06/2025 16:49

I think it's great news, obviously and embarrassing for the UK, particularly after it's falling behind the rest of Western Europe in terms of queer rights.

Why do you care what I think? I'm a transsexual woman - one of those evil people you spend all your available hours in seething hate about (in many cases for years), obviously I'm going to be pleased that my trans siblings get more legal recognition.

I'm confused. Are you a male transexual or a female transexual? It's not clear from your post.

FlirtsWithRhinos · 26/06/2025 17:03

BeeSouriante · 26/06/2025 16:49

I think it's great news, obviously and embarrassing for the UK, particularly after it's falling behind the rest of Western Europe in terms of queer rights.

Why do you care what I think? I'm a transsexual woman - one of those evil people you spend all your available hours in seething hate about (in many cases for years), obviously I'm going to be pleased that my trans siblings get more legal recognition.

Oh sweetheart. We don't hate you. We just want you to stop colonising womanhood.

Female people exist. Whatever your personal definition of a "woman" might be, the group of female people does not include you, and this remains true whatever you may change in language or in law.

So all I want to understand is why is it so important to do that a group of people who you don't belong to, whose problems are different to the problems you may or may not face, be denied legal rights, social acceptance and even our own name and language with which to speak of our own experiences?

Why is it so important to you to take away the tools we need to fight our historic and onoing marginalisation, abuse and oppression, things that are centred in our female bodies and how society treats us because of them?

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 26/06/2025 17:35

BeeSouriante · 26/06/2025 16:49

I think it's great news, obviously and embarrassing for the UK, particularly after it's falling behind the rest of Western Europe in terms of queer rights.

Why do you care what I think? I'm a transsexual woman - one of those evil people you spend all your available hours in seething hate about (in many cases for years), obviously I'm going to be pleased that my trans siblings get more legal recognition.

You don't consider yourself a woman and you don't actually want to be one, because you are agitating to have more rights than we have.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 26/06/2025 17:38

FlirtsWithRhinos · 26/06/2025 17:03

Oh sweetheart. We don't hate you. We just want you to stop colonising womanhood.

Female people exist. Whatever your personal definition of a "woman" might be, the group of female people does not include you, and this remains true whatever you may change in language or in law.

So all I want to understand is why is it so important to do that a group of people who you don't belong to, whose problems are different to the problems you may or may not face, be denied legal rights, social acceptance and even our own name and language with which to speak of our own experiences?

Why is it so important to you to take away the tools we need to fight our historic and onoing marginalisation, abuse and oppression, things that are centred in our female bodies and how society treats us because of them?

Edited

It's the final frontier, isn't it? Womanhood is pretty much the only thing that has never been for or about men. So now, having taken everything else, they've decided they want that too.

BackToLurk · 26/06/2025 17:45

BeeSouriante · 26/06/2025 16:49

I think it's great news, obviously and embarrassing for the UK, particularly after it's falling behind the rest of Western Europe in terms of queer rights.

Why do you care what I think? I'm a transsexual woman - one of those evil people you spend all your available hours in seething hate about (in many cases for years), obviously I'm going to be pleased that my trans siblings get more legal recognition.

“I'm a transsexual woman - one of those evil people you spend all your available hours in seething hate about (in many cases for years), obviously I'm going to be pleased that my trans siblings get more legal recognition.” and give no shits about how actual women are treated or about sex-selective abortion.

Fixed it

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2020/aug/21/selective-abortion-in-india-could-lead-to-68m-fewer-girls-being-born-by-2030

Selective abortion in India could lead to 6.8m fewer girls being born by 2030

New study shows preference for a son is highest in north of country with Uttar Pradesh having highest deficit in female births

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2020/aug/21/selective-abortion-in-india-could-lead-to-68m-fewer-girls-being-born-by-2030

Theeyeballsinthesky · 26/06/2025 17:51

Is Bee, Butters by a new name? 🤔

miraxxx · 26/06/2025 18:18

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

HappyNewTaxYear · 26/06/2025 19:21

BeeSouriante · 26/06/2025 16:49

I think it's great news, obviously and embarrassing for the UK, particularly after it's falling behind the rest of Western Europe in terms of queer rights.

Why do you care what I think? I'm a transsexual woman - one of those evil people you spend all your available hours in seething hate about (in many cases for years), obviously I'm going to be pleased that my trans siblings get more legal recognition.

You’re a gay man on one of your other threads though.

ForestAtTheSea · 26/06/2025 19:48

FlirtsWithRhinos · 26/06/2025 10:09

These societies with a traditional third gender - can women (in the original non-sexist sense of female bodied people) also become them or are they in fact a subset of male social roles?

In some indigenous societies, I think it was somewhere in Asia but my memory from Anthropology studies is incomplete - where there is a deficit of men, it can be accepted that two women live as a family and one takes on the male role.
This is not a modern phenomenon but a historical one.

The concept behind this was the functioning of society - it was important for survival that there are family groups and no-one left behind. Thus by one person taking on the male role, this was possible.

It is a similar idea to the one @lightonmetal presented, but in a different geographical area.

The philosophical ideas behind the concept have nothing to do with trans, either, rather they were an adaptation to circumstances combined with preservation of their culture - a temporary flex, if you can say so.

I haven't seen any background regarding whether these couples might have been lesbians or otherwise just made the best out of their situation, but perhaps there is research literature about this.

Essentially these concepts are not progressive but conservative. They temporarily permit women to "live as men" or "boys to live as girls" in order to keep their world and society intact, because the adaptation to "too many girls" or "too many men" within the society is much more difficult.
(Similarly to the ladyboys concept, which provides an "option" (if not an easy one) in a conservative society).

I have never read that anyone believed the people involved really change sex. It's a cultural ritual due to specific reasons.

Annoyedone · 26/06/2025 20:29

HappyNewTaxYear · 26/06/2025 19:21

You’re a gay man on one of your other threads though.

Gay man..transwoman… same thing really

BiologicalRobot · 26/06/2025 22:19

HappyNewTaxYear · 26/06/2025 19:21

You’re a gay man on one of your other threads though.

Pip Bunce??

pourmeadrinkpls · 28/06/2025 08:41

MarieDeGournay · 26/06/2025 14:22

Ireland also spent so long in the stranglehold of colonialism, and so was used to people being discriminated against, and killed in great numbers, because of who they were.

It has only been an independent nation for a short time - Free State in 1922, Republic in 1948 - so it's hardly comparable to the UK which had a bit of a head start, and also had the advantage of not being occupied by a foreign power for centuries.

Ireland is a complex case, because as well as keeping the population in a 'stranglehold', the Catholic religion was also a source of consolation, strength, cultural identity, and social care during centuries of occupation and hardship, so it was always going to be difficult to unpick its hold after independence.

It may indeed have left a gap in the national psyche that any old woo can fill🙄

There are similarities between India and Ireland as ex-colonies, and being too ready to accept genderwoo might well be one of them.

This is really insightful. When you are from a colony nation, you are very familiar with oppression and discrimination so it doesn't make you more sympathetic to others that are also in a minority. English tend to think it was so long ago, but from countries who were colonised they still feel those negative effects today.

mangoglow · 28/06/2025 10:20

Ah yes India, that country is well know for its strong stance on women's rights and has never privileged men and their rights and male sexual interests above the basic human rights of women.

Have a wee think OP, you are making our arguments for us.

Grammarnut · 28/06/2025 10:34

Misogynistic society where patriarchy rules. Men are people and women are, well, things.

Grammarnut · 30/06/2025 15:06

Has just occurred to me that this judgement may be a side-swipe at the UK SC judgement that woman means biological women and transwomen are men.