Indian court rules a transgender woman is a woman

[BeeSouriante]

https://www.washingtonblade.com/2025/06/25/indian-court-rules-a-transgender-woman-is-a-woman/

Does India have transmen? Does this legal ruling allow Indian women to be men in law?

I think Ireland, having spent so long in the stranglehold of the Catholic Church, is just used to misogynistic religions, which is why it has been particularly vulnerable to gender ideology.

The idea that women should have agency over their own bodies and lives isn't as deeply ingrained in Ireland as it is in the UK. They tolerated Magdalene laundries until the 1990s and a lack of abortion rights until very recently, so is it all that surprising that they will also tolerate women not having the right to say no to men who say they are women?

Third gender societies are generally conservative societies who have made accomodation for homosexual or effeminate men, never women. These men work as prostitutes or shamans - and are generally marginalised. India's hijras work as prostitutes (in sex segregated societies, many straight men have their first sexual experiences with such prostitutes being nervous/afraid of actual women) and as soothsayers of a sort (they gatecrash weddings and homes where there are newborns and refuse to leave until they have been paid off for their "blessings"). It is only recently that trans people have been tentatively accepted into mainstream life/occupations. Many trans people are actually driven out of their families and live with hijra communities.

The Hindu religion does not accept or depict a third gender- that is sheer nonsense. Under the reincarnation concept, the soul does not have a sex, hence you can be reborn as practically anything, even an inanimate object. In the mythological stories the male gods (and some demons) temporarily assume female forms to fight each other. This shape shifting is to fulfill the same legal loophole: a demon cannot be vanquished by man or woman, so the god becomes half and half. Literally. Shiva is shown as female on one side and male on the other. Dhoti on the right and sari on the left. Google the pics. There is nothing trans about that!

Now this particular case. The judge is female. The couple were not married but there is a dowry harassment charge. The male partner wanted out of the live in relationship, his family probably tried to help the cut by pressuring for a dowry (it is a tactic to cut off some relationships). Pressuring for a dowry is illegal in India and has resonance in that society. The trans partner went to court with that charge and the defence made some bad arguments while the judge over-reached. Now there is a messy legal precedent in one state - but do remember that India has 28 states. Compare this to a ruling by a state court in Georgia, in the US.

India does not recognise same sex marriage. Neither does Singapore where I am from. There is an interesting twist to this as transpeople can change their legal gender identity and marry someone of the opposite sex legally. But the state can void the marriage if there is a change in sex identification of the partners as has happened in Singapore twice in recent years. You are not allowed to present as a heterosexual couple and then become a same-sex couple with one of the partners transitioning. Western LBGTQ activists lauding this particular court ruling as progressive do not have the full picture.

I find it amusing that many other ignorant remarks about caste, marital rape etc are being made about India. Singapore did not recognise marital rape for many years (until 2020) despite signing up to CEDAW because like India, we recognise muslim family law which explicitly rejects marital rape. It took many years of dialogue with the muslim community (relatively progressive here) until they agreed to recognise marital rape because certain amendments in the civil family system, Women's Charter and the Syariah legal system need to be hand-in-hand in societies like ours with dual track legal systems.

This. I 'm really tired of this western genuinely colonialist attitude of seeing other cultures through the lens of modern western transgender ideology, and then manipulating and bastardising these cultures to support western beliefs.

These cultures exist within their own cultures for their own reasons and need to be understood, and critiqued, in those terms.

But what is actually going to happen is that Western colonialists and their supporters will start to pressurise these traditions to behave more like Western trans activists to advance a Western agenda.

Yes India has transmen. It has transmen and transwomen marrying each other.
https://homegrown.co.in/homegrown-creators/the-invisible-lives-of-transmen-in-india

https://www.instagram.com/aryanpasha/?hl=en

https://indianexpress.com/article/india/kerala-witnesses-first-transgender-marriage-5172148/#:~:text=IT%20WAS%20a%20historic%20moment%20for%20the,transman%20enter%20into%20married%20life%20in%20Kerala.

The irony is that these activists purport to be the best of the post-colonialists and these activists include many progressive indians.

100% agree with this. I would advise averybody else commenting here to inform themselves first about Indian transgender people - the tradition has been going on for thousands of years and it's a cultural thing there. It cannot be compared to the Western concept of being transgender. They are officially recognized as 3. sex in India and their presence is crucial in many ceremonies and festivities.

Third gender societies are generally conservative societies who have made accomodation for homosexual or effeminate men, never women

There are a few examples of women being accepted as man, or a third catergory. I think it was Albania where they had ' eternal virgins' who were women who lived as men, and do the things men did, like smoking. They could not marry though. As I understand it, this was a device created for families who had only daughters, but wanted to still pass their property and inheritance within their family. And daughters could not inherit, so one needed to ' become' a son. Eternal virgins have died out as there is no need for them anymore.

What has a court case in India got to do with British women living in Britain on a British site?

Indeed, we saw USAid channeling funds to promote Queer Cultures and 'Identities' throughout the world...in the same way the U.S exports is various psycho-social maladies.

Actually many people from the lower castes "brahminise" themselves - it is of course the logical thing to do when faced with this kind of oppression and they succeed to varying levels. How you mask yourself depends on your skin colour, social mobility, wealth etc
The reverse - dropping caste names and marrying out of the caste- also happens because there are Indians who take a principled stand against caste.
The current Indian President is from the scheduled tribe classification and there have been dalit Presidents. The most famous dalit of them all wrote the Indian constitution : BR Ambedkhar.

I think Afghanistan also has these exceptions for women.
https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-15262680

Sorry wrong quote. I meant to address @lightonmetal

The trans issue is a global one.

I imagine it was posted as a poor attempt at a "see? SEE? See how progressive other countries are??"

But actually it's prompted an interesting discussion and I've particularly enjoyed the input from @Holluschickie and @miraxxx as well as others.

When you read the article you realise how utterly confused the law is in India when it comes to gender. This case has come about because a transwoman was being abused by a partner (specifically around dowry) and couldn't get justice due to being legally male. Of course the obvious solution to this is to say that men can legally be women and not to... I dunno... create legal protections for transwomen?!

Classic quote at the end:
“If someone is carrying themselves as female, they should be honored with their status,” added Patel.

So many things wrong with that sentence it's hard to know where to start.

Does it work both ways in India? Are women allowed to be men? Because that would be a serious upgrade in such a sexist country!

thats exactly why it was posted

oddly many of the most deeply misogynistic societies in the world are positive about TW - I wonder why that could be??

I doubt the OP expected any interesting discussions what with us being 6 sock puppets/silly mummies/all tooooo old

Yes, most of us know this. We are highlighting that the situation in India is not comparable.

This OP has form for goady plop and run posts.

Well same sex marriage would be the most obvious solution.

Instead of men having to present as women to get married to other men.

Agree @Theeyeballsinthesky

Generally speaking, I find TRAs and their allies extremely ignorant about the rest of the world and how things function elsewhere. I appreciate when posters with real understanding share their knowledge and experience.

Which is also why I found it particularly amusing how many TRAs were vowing to flee abroad after the SC ruling. I mean, really? They couldn't even find these countries on a map.

Don't forget homophobia!

Absolutely this

@miraxxx

I find it amusing that many other ignorant remarks about caste, marital rape etc are being made about India.

I posted the news story about marital rape being legal in India. Would you like to expand on why that is amusing to you? What cultural nuance have I missed that makes marital rape ok?

I guess when biological women have less rights and protection than a dog they probably won’t pipe up about these things too much? It’s just another example to f men doing whatever the fuck they want