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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
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32
Datun · 19/06/2025 13:52

BettyBooper · 19/06/2025 13:49

He said it in an interview on the Triggernometry podcast. And other places. I heard it from his own mouth. Will see if I can find it...

I was giving him the benefit of the doubt thinking that the person said he heard a story...

BettyBooper · 19/06/2025 13:52

BettyBooper · 19/06/2025 13:49

He said it in an interview on the Triggernometry podcast. And other places. I heard it from his own mouth. Will see if I can find it...

https://www.facebook.com/share/v/16fDxQmrSF/

He's been all over telling this tale...

Christmasmorale · 19/06/2025 13:52

Datun · 19/06/2025 13:49

Chris, did you read my post to you about the process by which people have concluded what they have?

Edited

I am not sure if I missed it sorry - if you could quote it for me I will read it.

Helleofabore · 19/06/2025 13:54

Christmasmorale · 19/06/2025 13:50

I think you have made my point entirely. Your refusal to even acknowledge the obvious and public racism at work in the identification and vilification of Ms Semenya is what makes many minorities feel excluded from white feminism.

Please tell us exactly what would have been acceptable in your opinion, how feminists should have alerted the public to the fact that Semenya was a male athlete and that the IOC rules were unjust.

Please give us the exact wording that you would find acceptable please, that would convince people around the world and sporting bodies that there is an injustice being done.

spannasaurus · 19/06/2025 13:55

Christmasmorale · 19/06/2025 13:50

I think you have made my point entirely. Your refusal to even acknowledge the obvious and public racism at work in the identification and vilification of Ms Semenya is what makes many minorities feel excluded from white feminism.

He's vilified because he's a cheating man.

He's been identified as a male because he is one - how is that racism?

If people were saying that Serena Williams or Simone Biles looked like men then I would agree with you that those people are racist because they are women and clearly look like women.

Helleofabore · 19/06/2025 13:56

Datun · 19/06/2025 13:49

joking aside, that paragraph only highlights all the inherent physical differences that people clock straight away. It's got nothing to do with whether they look masculine. And everything to do with whether they look male.

Masculine women don't have male bone structure.

They do not.

But I have had several posters on recent threads declare to me very confidently that no one can tell the difference. Hence I just happened to have those links readily available...

It is the same old, same old.

BettyBooper · 19/06/2025 13:57

Datun · 19/06/2025 13:52

I was giving him the benefit of the doubt thinking that the person said he heard a story...

Yeah, sadly not.

JK publicly called him out and, well, the big tough man can't be having that now can he?

Wanker.

tobee · 19/06/2025 13:58

Thanks @BettyBooper. I like to get the facts in my arguments straight if I can 😊

Datun · 19/06/2025 13:59

BettyBooper · 19/06/2025 13:52

https://www.facebook.com/share/v/16fDxQmrSF/

He's been all over telling this tale...

Oh my God, that's difficult to believe.

I don't mind a bit of comic's license, though. And now the retelling of that story has come back to bite him on the arse if it's not true. Because it's now being used to make her look mean.

if he had any integrity he would set the record straight on that one

javyd · 19/06/2025 13:59

Christmasmorale · 19/06/2025 12:55

My bad if I took it at face value - I thought she might be a fellow exhausted black woman agreeing but if I have missed the sarcasm then that's on me. From the likes on some of my posts, I know there may be some on here who agree even if they are not commenting.

yep, the sarcasm fell flat 🤣

BettyBooper · 19/06/2025 13:59

tobee · 19/06/2025 13:58

Thanks @BettyBooper. I like to get the facts in my arguments straight if I can 😊

You're welcome!

NotTerfNorCis · 19/06/2025 13:59

I think one point Fry makes is valid, which is that JK was 'radicalised' by vicious and relentless attacks from TRAs. At the beginning of all this, she at first tried to backtrack ('middle-aged moment'), then tried to show she supported trans people but couldn't agree with the ideology. When the attacks intensified, she wrote a heartfelt essay explaining why she felt as she did about males in women's spaces. But the fanatics just got nastier, trying to diminish her achievements or separate her from her work. So she went into fight mode.

BettyBooper · 19/06/2025 14:03

Datun · 19/06/2025 13:59

Oh my God, that's difficult to believe.

I don't mind a bit of comic's license, though. And now the retelling of that story has come back to bite him on the arse if it's not true. Because it's now being used to make her look mean.

if he had any integrity he would set the record straight on that one

I wondered at the time about JK calling him out. I wondered if there was more to meet the eye. 🤔

DiamondThrone · 19/06/2025 14:03

NotTerfNorCis · 19/06/2025 13:59

I think one point Fry makes is valid, which is that JK was 'radicalised' by vicious and relentless attacks from TRAs. At the beginning of all this, she at first tried to backtrack ('middle-aged moment'), then tried to show she supported trans people but couldn't agree with the ideology. When the attacks intensified, she wrote a heartfelt essay explaining why she felt as she did about males in women's spaces. But the fanatics just got nastier, trying to diminish her achievements or separate her from her work. So she went into fight mode.

I love that TRAs radicalised her 😁

Datun · 19/06/2025 14:05

Christmasmorale · 19/06/2025 13:52

I am not sure if I missed it sorry - if you could quote it for me I will read it.

It was today at 1312. But I'll copy and paste it below.

Although, I would recommend that you also read the post on from that by Helleofabore, because it highlights exactly how people can tell straight away if someone is male or female. Among other things, facial bone structure will prove very different between men, and masculine women.

Here's my post:

Christmasmorale

it's not surprising that you're under the impression that sympathy should be reserved for caster semenya .

Sporting bodies, caster himself, his entire team, and the press were all complicit in what really has begun to seem like a massive con.

The press absolutely wrote stories about invasive and humiliating examinations to determine caster's sex. And many people were under the impression that caster is a woman with high testosterone.

But once further testing was deemed ambiguous, a lot more came to light.

One of the things that came to light was an interview with Caster, where he clearly thinks of himself as male.

Talking about women in a sexist way, and calling them soft. His coach called him he and always has.

Photographs of caster as a child would indicate that after puberty, at least, he thought of himself as male.

Apparently the DSD that Caster has is not rare in certain parts of the world and is colloquially called 'Penis at 12'. As, at puberty, it's quite clear what sex the person is.

(It's something like the viralisation of testosterone that should happen at birth, but doesn't, happens with puberty.)

And yes, it would appear that scouts deliberate identify individuals like this, because many are registered as female, but have male sporting advantage.

You may not have realised any of this, as this is the sex and gender board, and the women here have been discussing Caster for about 10 years.

In great detail.

There are many other male athletes with the same DSD, Khelif is one of them. Indeed, in the women's 800 m at the Rio Olympics, the gold, silver and bronze all went to men.

All of them called women with naturally high testosterone levels. A level that is impossible for any woman to achieve.

It's a fucking disgrace.

It's not an accident, it's not just a shame, it's a deliberate way of courting fame, money and kudos by screwing women over.

And it's nothing to do with racism.

Men and women have 6500 genetic differences. A masculine looking woman does not look like a man.
It's ironic that being gender critical, like the women here, means that women can be as masculine as they bloody like, and it's absolutely irrelevant to the fact that they are female.

That IS gender criticism.

Datun · 19/06/2025 14:07

BettyBooper · 19/06/2025 14:03

I wondered at the time about JK calling him out. I wondered if there was more to meet the eye. 🤔

Oh, so that tweet where she was saying none of that was true, that's not a recent tweet?

Sorry, I'm not Twitter.

Still, he should still set the record straight. Anyone can check to see if that line is in all the books, for goodness sake!

FlirtsWithRhinos · 19/06/2025 14:10

LimeFinch · 19/06/2025 09:10

There's a thread this account started? Cool.

"This account started"? That's a very weird reply.

Oh god, is "LimeFinch" another bunch of young adult male geeks who have decided they that because they aren't Chads and they like neko they must be girls taking turns to post "killer" arguments (if your idea of the height of intellect is a cross between Reddit and the sixth form commmon room anyway) with copious use of chatGPT? Is really time for one of those again already?

impossibletoday · 19/06/2025 14:12

Ella Whelan...

Stephen Fry embodies everything wrong with our cultural elite

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/d7839326c4f2c9d4

Helleofabore · 19/06/2025 14:13

I suspect so Flirts.

BettyBooper · 19/06/2025 14:14

Datun · 19/06/2025 14:07

Oh, so that tweet where she was saying none of that was true, that's not a recent tweet?

Sorry, I'm not Twitter.

Still, he should still set the record straight. Anyone can check to see if that line is in all the books, for goodness sake!

Good for you for making me check! No not at all recent, actually. I'd only seen it recently so it must have been a repost.

So I take back that his latest turn around is in response to it.

Still think he's a wanker tho!

Daygloboo · 19/06/2025 14:14

I can never make up my mind about SF. Sometimes I think he's the loveliest, most intelligent, well meaning soul who ever walked the earth......and other times I think he's an attention seeking so and so who can't bear to be wrong and that there's something dark underneath. But then I think he's Hugh Lawrie's friend, and would someone as lovely and funny and bright as HL have SF as a friend if SF was a bit iffy.

Rhaidimiddim · 19/06/2025 14:15

TheaBrandt1 · 19/06/2025 08:16

Reckon he found out about a social event he wasn’t invited to. Has that aggrieved petulant air

He didn't get Dumbledore in the new series, so is either revenging, or saying what he always thought now there's nothing to risk. I hope JK does a Taylor Swift on the audio books.

BettyBooper · 19/06/2025 14:16

Daygloboo · 19/06/2025 14:14

I can never make up my mind about SF. Sometimes I think he's the loveliest, most intelligent, well meaning soul who ever walked the earth......and other times I think he's an attention seeking so and so who can't bear to be wrong and that there's something dark underneath. But then I think he's Hugh Lawrie's friend, and would someone as lovely and funny and bright as HL have SF as a friend if SF was a bit iffy.

Hugh Laurie does seem like a lovely human.

Datun · 19/06/2025 14:19

impossibletoday · 19/06/2025 14:12

Ella Whelan...

Stephen Fry embodies everything wrong with our cultural elite

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/d7839326c4f2c9d4

Perhaps it was Rowling’s celebration of the ruling with champagne and cigars that ticked off Fry – some men find it very hard to watch women enjoy a victory.

Fry said “to scream ‘transphobe’ at anybody who does not buy into every single aspect of that particular person’s trans views is so self harming. It does not get the thing done. You have to let people love you”.

This is the transphobia Fry thinks Rowling is guilty of – not showing “love”. She’s not polite enough. This is what so much of trans activists’ complaints boil down to – a demand for love and attention. This from a side who fail to show anything like love for the women they oppose.

The more these men say the same shit, the more they all conform to the same bloody opinions, the more depressed I get.

Why are their opinions of women so uniform? Cookie cutter stuff.

I like men, but this sexism gene is so boring and tedious.

ThatCyanCat · 19/06/2025 14:20

FlirtsWithRhinos · 19/06/2025 14:10

"This account started"? That's a very weird reply.

Oh god, is "LimeFinch" another bunch of young adult male geeks who have decided they that because they aren't Chads and they like neko they must be girls taking turns to post "killer" arguments (if your idea of the height of intellect is a cross between Reddit and the sixth form commmon room anyway) with copious use of chatGPT? Is really time for one of those again already?

He claimed lofty superiority, to be studying us like an anthropologist, and threw in a mention of the Dunning-Kruger effect which made absolutely no sense in the context. It's what passes for clever for some people.

I suspect he meant plain old general confirmation bias, but D-K is something specific that isn't applicable here. Although ironically, as he clearly overestimated his own ability to argue with reason, substance and cogency, the only person displaying signs of the D-K effect was him.

I think a couple of years ago it was quite fashionable to chuck in mention of D-K to make yourself look cleverer than if you just said "confirmation bias". It's a specific type of confirmation bias, though, and the two are not completely interchangeable.

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