Please help me send an email to our Chief Exec who has announced they are ignoring the Supreme Court

[VivaDixie]

I feel I have to do something about this - even just a carefully worded email.

Background: I work in a large well known, well respected white collar organisation. Historically it was very stuffy and male, but in recent decades it has become more inclusive.

This may be v outing but yesterday the very stuffy male Chief Exec announced in an all organisation Teams meeting that - basically - they are ignoring the SC ruling and said that trans colleagues can use whatever toilet and changing room they want. He had all the #bekind #beinclusive vibes. He reminded us all we have to be inclusive for all, clearly women don't come under that umbrella. Made lots of noises about 'we will all have different views on this as its a sensitive subject' bla bla

He made some waffle about how they are reviewing the matter and haven't made any final decisions, but - and this is crucial - that they have already taken external legal advice. I believe the crux of it is that they don't want to change the toilets and want to be seen to be inclusive.

This was one of those teams meetings where you can't put your hand up but there is an anonymous Q&A at the end - I didn't get a chance to put a Q in as I was blindsided and didn't know what to ask without sounding like an idiot.

So I intend to email the Chief Exec office and need to think about what to say. I want to keep it brief but I am thinking of getting the following in:

1. They say they have sought independent legal advice. How has this legal advice aligned with the SC ruling in terms of the fact that allowing trans colleagues to use whatever loo (and more crucially changing rooms) they like has always been but is now confirmed as unlawful
2. They say they are inclusive of all - how does this protect women's rights to safe spaces
3. The toilets are not self contained - in that they have floor to ceiling cubicles but the sinks are outside the cubicles. (Mumsnet - am I right that if you are essentially making these mixed sex then that set up is now unlawful?)

My questions are clunky but I am going to think over the weekend how to articulate this. If anyone has any ideas that would be much appreciated.

I'm going to wait for the transcript to come through then consider my options after reading this thread again.

Yes the organisation are well known. I don't want to say more as am choosing my words carefully, although I suspect some of my colleagues may read this and recognise it. That's fine with me as I am aware of many of my female colleagues who have been sort of expecting some kind of virtue signalling for a while so it could be one of many of us.

James Esses on X was asking for whistle blowers to share info with him a while ago, if you have anything in writing I'd forward it along to him.

Actually thats a good point @VivaDixie if you send an email shack on a line like “I consider this to be a protected disclosure”. Even on the mildest of queries that should put the wind up them 🤣

Do you know how to contact an operational risk area or finance? If you used the amounts in this and multiply by number of female employees? https://www.gov.uk/employment-appeal-tribunal-decisions/earl-shilton-town-council-v-ms-k-miller-2023-eat-5
if they don’t respond, whistleblow/the. Board?

I’d write and ask if there are any other laws he wants the company to break or if it’s just the ones protecting the safety and dignity of women which are optional. Also remind him that as H&S law, the workplace regulations are criminal law and he’s personally responsible if any women are harmed

Lots of good advice, Giid Luck. Let us know how you go 👏🤞

Thank you - and I agree - this thread has been priceless - I have a lot go go on. I will keep it succinct but may involve Sex Matters if I need to.

Thank you everyone - it is really much appreciated

good luck. x

Get your warrior pants on but be you the time is now.

let us know xx

Dear Head Honcho,

Given that you have nailed your colours to the mast and think that you are covered by some shonky legal advice, all you have to do is ask yourself "Do I feel lucky?'. Well, do you punk?

Yours etc.

@VivaDixie ..I've pm ' ed you as I believe we work for the same organisation and I'm also furious beyond belief and happy to join forces.

Thank you everyone. @Theredjellybean and I do indeed work together so we are joining forces. 🙂

https://sex-matters.org/posts/updates/a-template-for-clear-guidance/

Thanks for following this up @VivaDixie lots of great advice on this thread. My only suggestion is to reference women’s rights to single sex spaces rather than safe spaces.

Good luck @VivaDixie and @Theredjellybean

indeed encouraging others to breach the Equality Act is itself a breach of the Equality Act. It’s section 111.

111 Instructing, causing or inducing contraventions
(1)A person (A) must not instruct another (B) to do in relation to a third person (C) anything which contravenes Part 3, 4, 5, 6 or 7 or section 108(1) or (2) or 112(1) (a basic contravention).
(2)A person (A) must not cause another (B) to do in relation to a third person (C) anything which is a basic contravention.
(3)A person (A) must not induce another (B) to do in relation to a third person (C) anything which is a basic contravention.
(4)For the purposes of subsection (3), inducement may be direct or indirect.
(5)Proceedings for a contravention of this section may be brought—
(a)by B, if B is subjected to a detriment as a result of A's conduct;
(b)by C, if C is subjected to a detriment as a result of A's conduct;
(c)by the Commission.
(6)For the purposes of subsection (5), it does not matter whether—
(a)the basic contravention occurs;
(b)any other proceedings are, or may be, brought in relation to A's conduct.
(7)This section does not apply unless the relationship between A and B is such that A is in a position to commit a basic contravention in relation to B.
(8)A reference in this section to causing or inducing a person to do something includes a reference to attempting to cause or induce the person to do it.
(9)For the purposes of Part 9 (enforcement), a contravention of this section is to be treated as relating—
(a)in a case within subsection (5)(a), to the Part of this Act which, because of the relationship between A and B, A is in a position to contravene in relation to B;
(b)in a case within subsection (5)(b), to the Part of this Act which, because of the relationship between B and C, B is in a position to contravene in relation to C.

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/section/111

@PrettyDamnCosmic excellent thanks for that

I will put it in my knowledge is power file

Where’s the Daily Mail when you need them?

Is it worth referencing the Arts Council situation where a Tribunal took a dim view of their pro-trans All Hands meetings?

My understanding is that it’s the norm for large organisations to offer both single sex and unisex provision and therefore by acting as an outlier they are risking reputational damage.

@PrettyDamnCosmic thank you for that.
The OP are indeed talking about the same organisation and are joining forces.
I was most angered by the fact he is making me complicit in breaking the law ! so useful to be able to actually quote something that backs that feeling up.
For anyone else in this position - i would echo that Sex Matters has brilliant template emails to use.

Just to add that the legal feminist had an excellent blog post that I have used in a similar internal discussion.
In this, they point out that it the organisation is not following the law on this matter then how are they going to enforce lawfulness on other matters. Perhaps it is ok with some light fraud or just a small bribe?

Very helpful @DenmarkStreet thank you

Absolutely…!

Just a little update for you all. @Theredjellybean and I had a very productive meeting with a colleague (who has some clout) today and we have a solid plan to take this forward. Using a lot of info from the Sex Matters website and also using some of the input from you all.

There will probably not be an update for a while now but we are well and truly on it. So we just want to thank you all.