Ban the Burka? Q to Kier Starmer today-is this a good idea or not?

[happydappy2]

I know dictating to women what they can or can't wear is not popular amongst feminists. But is stating that they cannot cover their face a bad thing? There are many situations where faces have to be visible for security, ie in a bank you cannot wear a motorcycle helmet. I know some people will say if certain women cannot wear a burka they will not be able to leave their home....but isn't it better that women can just live their lives in the same way as men do, ie faces uncovered? Interested to hear others views. Personally having lived in Saudi Arabia I respected their customs when in their country but feel the UK should also be able to say, in our country, women can show their faces.

Yep. I saw them in Liverpool in the 90s. Certainly see them in London and Luton

Having lived in several Muslim areas, I am pro ban. Not head coverings but anything that covers a woman’s face. I don’t think it’s great that the state has to get involved in what women wear but is this really women’s choice? They are raised in a western society and they believe the only way to exist in that society is to cover themselves from head to toe to stop the lustful gazes of passing men? And what about those of us who don’t walk around covered up like this? I know what some men in Blackburn used to shout at me when I lived there and it wasn’t pleasant. Ordering women to cover up like that or making it socially unacceptable not to is the mark of a patriarchal society and, last time I checked, the west believed in equality between the sexes. If women want to express their devotion to their faith, a hijab is fine. Anything beyond that diminishes women and isolates those who wear coverings from wider society.

I am pro ban, not hijab, but anything that covers the face. It's oppressive and isolating. The Niqab and Burka are cultural rather than religious and tied to extreme forms of Islam in countries like Afghanistan and Saudi where women are not valued. I think we need to say this is not acceptable for women in the UK where women are an important half of the population.

What a daft post.. probably not suitable for lifeguarding but most other jobs fine !

do we want teachers or child minders covering their faces? It's probably not great to be a Dr or nurse in a hospital and have fabric covering your face. I imagine it makes it difficult to drive etc etc so in practical terms, what jobs can a woman do wearing a burka? It's hardly going to work in a hospitality setting is it?

No this is a fact daft post. No job which requires face to face contact ( whether in person or online) with another human is suitable to be done in a burqa.

I’ve seen many women in burkas outside but none in the workplace, be it schools, supermarkets, hospitals or anywhere really.

Where do you live where they are women in burkas everywhere?

I work in a large multi-ethnic city of many different nationalities, including a lot of people from Africa and the Middle East. There are many hijab wearers, but in ten years I have only seen one woman sporting a burka. She was a visiting academic from Saudi Arabia.

Of the many difficulties that the UK is facing at the moment, banning styles of women’s clothing is not a priority. And should never be.

I think many people include the niqab when they talk about burkas and burka bans. The niqab isn’t something you’ll only see once in your lifetime.

This reform idiot

She claimed this was about public safety, no?

There is definitely a public safety aspect to men and women hiding their identity.

The disappearance of the woman’ by Boushra Almutakawel

The chairman of Reform has just resigned after calling the “ban the burka” call from his party “dumb.”

Not even a popular policy with populists, it would seem.

Quite a few EU countries already do this. I don’t think they qualify as ‘dumb’.

@EasternStandardDon’t tell me, tell the chap credited with steering Reform to its recent electoral successes.

This ban is aimed at women, sorry but what women wearing burkas have created any public disorder/harm/attacks/fights in public etc? I'll wait....

A woman found guilty of terror offences has had a second custody image released by police, showing her wearing a niqab, after her defence said she was distressed by an earlier image showing her face, according to reports.

Farishta Jami, from Stratford-upon-Avon, Warwickshire, was found guilty of two counts of engaging in conduct in preparation for terrorism, after planning to travel to join the affiliate of the so-called Islamic State in Afghanistan, Isis-K.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/stratforduponavon-afghanistan-warwickshire-police-warwickshire-islamic-state-b2698949.html

Is it? Or is it aimed at men wanting to write women out of public life?

Are nuns going to be banned from wearing their habits and veils? What about monks? Can they wear their robes? And priests? Must priests wear mufty because that dog collar is oppressing them?

It doesn’t sound very tolerant or like something Brits would embrace.

I also think this should apply to the youngsters walking around the city centre in balaclavas. We need to be able to see who other people are for a multitude of reasons.

Google it. I think you might be confused about the level of coverage in a burka. It's the one where even the eyes are covered, and woman is looking out at the world through a mesh grille. Even more full coverage than the niqab. (That's the one that covers the face but leaves a little strip of the eyes visible.)

You really can't see how that could be a hindrance to working life?

But you don't mind living in a.country where.men belonging to.certain groups tell women what to wear.
Once on a very hot day a family sat down at a table near me. Dad went to get drinks for two lovely little girls and his wife covered head to toe in a burka with slits to let her see out. Dad and the girls drank their juice but Mum just sat there until Dad flapped his hand at her and she was able to have a drink.
I was saddened by how the woman was treated but appalled by what lay ahead of the two little girls.
I'm not all right with that at all.

Well I said I wasn't going to comment further, but today's a new day and I wanted to comment on this and a point you made earlier.

If in the UK, we're going to accept all religious practices as someone's right to observe their faith and so on (because it would be racist or against their human rights not to) then we would have to allow Muslims to practice polygamy right?
Many Muslim women enter freely into polygamous marriages (indeed many converts are brainwashed into thinking this is somehow beneficial for the women). Polygamy came around at a time when there were fewer men and also as a way to take care of widows which isn't as relevant today.

As it stands polygamy is illegal in the UK, but following the theme of 'it's their religion and their right' surely an exemption for Muslims (and others who practice polygamy in line with their beliefs) should be made and respected in law

In reality, multiple marriages do happen in the UK and while they are islamically valid, they leave the woman with no legal rights according to UK law due to the marriage not being recognised by the state.

Apart from child marriages and FGM which shouldn't be permitted anywhere in the world, we should be permitting all sorts of oppressive practices if it's their way of practicing their faith right?

You can't condone face coverings but condemn polygamy.

I also don't think exemptions should be made purely on the basis of religion. If something is permitted 'because religion' it should also be allowed simply because someone wants to- no reason.

@GreenFriedTomato I agree with you. Something being a religious practise doesn’t just mean it has to happen.