Gender ideology in maternity research

[MrsBlob]

I participated in a study today (online) about postnatal mental health, having had a baby 2 months ago. One of the questions gave me cause to email the researchers; see the attached image.

On a serious note, a researcher will need to go through the responses to that question. The question is based on a mass delusion, and therefore any data from it is worthless.

This is unacceptable when maternal MH is a major cause of suffering and death for women who have become mothers.

That email is brilliant OP.

It reminds me of, Where's the foetus going to gestate, are you going to put it in a box? - Monty Python.

I love your response 😍

We need more of this blunt, calling them on their nonsense.

Fab email @MrsBlob

Post-natal mental health is an important area to research; there shouldn't be room for obfuscation

I know, that did pop into my head XD

Congratulations on your baby. I'm sorry pregnancy put you through the mill. I hope you're getting on better now.

Loved your email. Please update if they reply.

Good response.

Maternity is one space where men really should GTFO.

That is a great email, thank l you. If it's any encouragement whatsoever, I've recently completed my masters in which I was completing a systematic review of research into how maternity services engage with service users. I'm using service users because it also included not just the women but also their families.

I was greatly encouraged by how few of the studies referred to anything but women when they were talking about the women giving birth, it was literally two American ones and that was it.

The researchers for this are Australian, might explain it.

Will do if they respond, we'll see.

Brilliant!

@MrsBlob I’d love to know who the researchers are. I am part of a group over this way that get interested. Happy to take a pm. We would keep an eye out for them.

I do love your reply. Take no shit.

Your email is a delight! A thing of beauty. Please let us know if you hear back.

Fabulous email MrsB

At the risk of being flamed mrs blob I’d like to add a different perspective. I’ve worked in research and practice in women’s health for 30 years so I totally get the debate. Until a few year ago I’d have wholeheartedly agreed with you. But I also have a trans young adult child (f-m) who passes as a man ( very effectively I might add), has a male name and uses he/him pronouns. This has been transformative and means he is able to live without being actively suicidal. I don’t think he would want to give birth despite having a uterus, but if that were to change I’d expect he’d like to tick the ‘male’ box on the questionnaire.

you are absolutely entitled to your views, and I imagine it may have been emotive sharing your personal mental health experiences in the questionnaire. I sincerely hope you’re in a better place.

Could I ask you to bear in mind that sometimes issues look very different when you have personal experience of them, and the trans debate is one? I expect the researchers were trying to make everyone valued and heard. Adding ‘how do you identify’ might have made their questions clearer. My trans child lives their life without harming or abusing anyone; he doesn’t threaten anyone in toilets, indeed I think it’s more likely to be the other way round. Many trans people, like any of us, just want to live their truth quietly without forcing it on anyone else.

I am sorry about your DD but the point being made is that the research becomes worthless with this question added - men do not give birth and suggesting that some men do invalidates the research. Identifying as a man as your DD does is not the same as BEING a man and if your DD does have a child she will discover this fast.
I'd say the same about Non-Binary too, except that most people are NB in that they have no sense of gender ID.

I think you’ve missed the point I was trying to make. I was in fact explaining that being a man is not the same as identifying as a man - hence why the question should have asked how people identify. Of course, men don’t give birth. Also, you don’t need to be sorry about my trans son. He’s doing great and I’m really proud of him.

@marthasmum I would counter that the point you're making is irrelevant in this context. You're quite right that being a man is not the same as identifying as one.

Research has to be factual. If they are asking about gender id then yes your daughter should tick man. But they're asking about sex (we presume, given it's a medical questionnaire).

There is no 'should'. Gender id is irrelevant for most purposes. Sorry but it just is.

Gently, while your child 'might like' to tick the male box on the questionnaire, research responses need to be accurate, or there is no point carrying out the research in the first place.

If the research hinges on sex, your child should either state their actual sex truthfully, or abstain from taking part in the research.

If being confronted with the reality of their sex is still so upsetting for your child, I hope they are able to access effective mental health support.

Sadly it's the demands of trans activists that maternity services are turned upside down to pander to their wishes that resulted in my daughter feeling dehumanised and insulted when encountering maternity staff / written information calling her a pregnant person, that stripped the word mother from documents, replacing breast feeding with chest feeding etc. Her pride in pregnacy and birth was undermined as she saw how being a woman & mother was devalued by NHS staff.
The OP was completing a questionnaire about mental health and was confronted with the insulting notion that men can give birth. So with respect @marthasmum, when you suggest that language and reality should be twisted in favour of a small % of mentally vulnerable young women who reject the reality of their bodies, please don't forget that the 50% of the population with the potential to gestate and birth babies can also be equally vulnerable & mentally fragile - which for young mothers with babies can be catastrophic.
Erasing their language and identity as mothers and pregnant women in favour of a minority is callous and unthinking. At a time when maternity services are universally inadequate, it's frankly unforgivable that any staff time is diverted to pursue this anti women nonsense instead of focusing on providing safe maternity care

I agree that it would be clearer and more relevant if the question were about masculine or feminine identity. There are many reasons why somebody would wish to gather data on people who feel they have a gendered identity.

However, divorcing the words ‘male’ and ‘female’ from sex is not a neutral act.

Periods, pregnancy, female infertility, female specific cancers, breast feeding, menopause, miscarriage - none of these things are linked to identity and we have little intrinsic control over them. However they happen to us because of our sex and they have profound and long lasting consequences - as made clear in the OP.

Obviously people have individual experiences of gender dysphoria, but to go beyond asking for understanding and tailored healthcare, and generalise the concept of gendered identity while making reference to sex taboo is wrong. That may not have been the intent here, but it certainly has been elsewhere.

We need it to be possible to use words like ‘woman’ and ‘female’ in a gender neutral way that refers only to sex.

And thank you OP for taking the trouble to send that excellent email. It's only when women speak up about all this that women's voices will be heard. Isn't it ironic that maternity services - the very essence of being a woman - were so easily captured by this unscientific nonsense?

Yes, I forgot to say what a superb email that was, OP! Extremely well crafted and I laughed my socks off. Let's hope the recipients are suitably embarrassed.

In most circumstances, asking a person’s gender identity is as relevant as asking their star sign, favourite colour or what football team they support. It may be relevant to questions about mental health, but still should never be used in place of sex.
Loved your response, OP! And congratulations on the new baby.

I’m sorry to hear how your daughter felt mrs overton. I took the plunge to comment because I have sympathy with her feelings. As a midwife, researcher and someone who would previously have agreed wholeheartedly with the OP’s post, I thought it worth commenting to share the perspective I now have. Which is that it’s difficult, and complex, and I understand the perspectives you’re all expressing.
At the same time, it really is not that simple and trans people are not going away, so our language around this and the way we approach this in research needs to shift. Trans is a protected identity. My child isn’t rejecting the reality of their body - feeling male in a female body is their reality!
anyway, I’m bowing out now because I don’t think this is the right place to pursue the discussion.

I sympathise with you and your child. Transmen are generally not the problem.

It’s very striking that trans-identifying women tend to have the sort of mental-health problems that don’t harm anyone else, and undergo drastic surgery at an early age to try to fit their vision of masculinity. Very different from trans-identifying men, who demand ‘rights’ that belong to women, and very rarely sacrifice their male genitals or privilege.