I’ve just done a soft launch at work and need a wee handhold.

[BriceNobeslovesMurielHeslop]

I’m so sorry to do this- I’m usually very quiet on these boards as there are many posters who I agree with who are much more erudite than me. I’ve just had a conversation with a really lovely woman at work and pretty much exposed myself as a great big TERF, and now I think she’s away thinking I’m a raging horrible bigot.
I work in the NHS so it’s almost universally captured (although I suspect there’s lots of people who think like me) so now I’m feeling a bit sad and shaky- I would really appreciate a wee handhold.

Yep

Sadly, I know a remarkable number of both clinical and non-clinical staff who are all in on the most vulnerable vs transphobic bigot narrative.

Worryingly, a fair number are Chairs or members of relevant committees or groups where they stifle any perspective that disagrees with their advocacy.

Gender activists have really done a number on people with the words "transphobe", "transphobic" and "bigot". Somehow they have got these terms to have such a wide range that almost everyone can be deemed guilty; and somehow they have got them to be very effective in silencing people.

It's one of the tools used by those exerting coercive control isn't it? Creating fear by accusation. Showcased all day long on the Relationship and FWR boards.

Gosh yes. Am really confident talking about this stuff yet if I am talking to someone in the 'be kind' camp, I find myself apologising if anything I am saying seems bigoted and/or transphobic because it speaking about proven scientific fact really is not. It really is incredibly powerful just how the TRAs have monopolised these words and made them weapons to pretty much shut down the conversation.

What I really struggle with is explaining why we can't be kind on an individual basis due to the simple reason it's a tiny minority of TiMs who are spoiling for a fight, wanting access to women's single sex spaces and are shouting over everyone else. Indeed, I guess I have the TiMs to thank for making me realise I was a terf in the first place because had they kept quiet, I probably wouldn't have done all my reading and learnt all the facts before raising my head above the parapet. (Unlike many who were supposedly radicalised by MN, I didn't believe the whole TWAW in the first instance or that humans could change sex. Why? Because they are not, and they cannot. I only kept quiet initially because I didn't think it was something that was going to become such a huge issue. I honestly thought everyone would realise the whole idea was idiotic, particularly with regards to Philip/pa Bunce, Eddie 'call me Suzie' Izzard and of course, India Willoughby, all claiming to be women, and in some instances, on a part-time basis. I mean WTF. I wish I could have opted out of my female biology at various points of my life. Or if I put on a pair of trousers, cut my hair and strapped down my breasts, I earned as much as a man doing my job. Actually, given I've had a double mastectomy due to cancer, I clearly should give this a try 🙄)

Apologies for slight thread hijack!

I think most of us who were “ radicalised by Mumsnet” (I’ve always taken that as a tongue in cheek term) didn’t think TW were real women either- certainly beforehand I thought of it as a kind of courtesy bestowed by women onto (gay) men who prefer to present as women. It was only when I read (here) about the terrible attacks on Vancouver Women’s Shelter that it occurred to me that that courtesy would be abused in such a way.

If anybody remembers the episode of the Simpsons where there’s a little beetle scratching away at the back of Bart’s neck, that’s almost the feeling I felt. It was there, but I couldn’t quite place it. I remember going to a wedding where a TW at our table spent the whole night hanging around my friend and I. I couldn’t figure out why the interaction had made me uncomfortable. It was only after the scales had fallen that I realised we had been used as props- we were “the girls” and by extension so were they. (FTR, I don’t think that this is the dynamic every time a TW and W interact, but I’m sure it was on this occasion).

Certainly, the words “bigot” and “fascist” were quite quick to make an appearance in the conversation I described yesterday. The terms have become more or less meaningless in this particular debate.

I work in a NHS Trust where speaking out against trans eg TW in female changing room is a disciplinary offence so I won’t/ can’t speak up publicly. But in convos with trusted colleagues, they all agree with me. Common sense over a changed virtual reality. I’d like to be more open but I’m scared as I can’t lose my job.

@Misfiteverywhere that's despicable.

SandyThumb · Yesterday 14:00

Men with daughters worry about different things to people with elderly parents in hospitals or care homes

Well, you've got my number.... I was trying to find a sport, or activity for my daughter and most of the online advice was, "Don't bother, Rachel McKinnon."

I didn't know what being peaked was, but my interest was certainly piqued. Several rabbit holes later... I don't like liars, bullies, or cheats. It made me upset, angry, outraged and every other negative adjective you can imagine.

I think I'm out at work (children's hospital). At least within my dept/ associated depts.

I made fuss post Cass about whether or not we were going to develop an institutional policy regarding social transition due to the fact it isn't a neutral act (Children's hospital) but not much happened. I also do an incident form every time I come across a child where the biological sex marker has been altered to align with an incongruent gender identity due to the potential harm of that individual then missing out on sex based health screening in the future as we don't know with evolving IT infrastructure if hospital records will ever influence the NHS spine. As a minimum I really want them to issue training about the difference between sex and gender. I think a lot of staff are confused.

I did however duck out of emailing the CEO about their statement post supreme court judgment commiserating with all the affected staff and then doubling down on the now confirmed to be illegal "transgender policy" that states gender ID is what dictates changing rooms, toilets and wards (for patients) provision.

This was mostly because an older colleague I really trust took my laptop away from me that day and said that raising my head above the parapet was madness/ potential career injuring.

There is so much fucking Be Kind.

OP huge respect to you for speaking up and defending JK. Even if this woman does think you are a bigot, all it means is she is wrong, captured and/or hasn't done enough research into this topic.

JK is not transphobic, trans people follow and support her. She is pro women's rights and children's protections and frankly anyone who doesn't believe in either is not kind or lovely.

I realise some people aren't fully educated on the harm gender ideology has caused and are still stuck in a bubble of misinformation, but for anyone with awareness it's very obvious there is only one side here that is right. Perhaps you voicing your views will get her to do some much needed research.

Thought you may find this post on X helpful by ejrosetta

Right, I’m done. 3 months ago, I was tasked with writing an article detailing “20 Transphobic JK Rowling Quotes We’re Done With” After 12 weeks of reading her books, tweets, full essay & finding the context of these “quotes”, I’ve not found a single truly transphobic message

In the process, I peaked. JK Rowling is not an “intolerable transphobe”, she’s a (talented) woman who could have sat back & been beloved forever, but looked around & paid attention as the intersection of trans rights and women’s rights has had understandable growing pains.

You can carry on reading here:
https://x.com/ejrosetta/status/1595060392031657984

That's awful. Could you apply to the JKR fund? I hate this! Just sending you supportive vibes. 💞

Unfortunately, Naomi Cunningham is very very busy right now.

Well done to you for speaking up @BriceNobeslovesMurielHeslop. Courage calls to courage everywhere. You may not have peaked her - yet - but sewing seeds is valuable. Someone else may hear of your courage and know you are someone they can trust. Gradually we will find ourselves in this mad world.

I know and i wish it was different but i feel powerless

Possible but I just feel so powerless and the Trust is so large. A bit like shooting fish in a barrel and I’m scared for my job.

I think this is true, which is why it is so dangerous that so many people now, on the left, seem to think they need to disassociate from anyone with differernt politics. It means they can completely demonise those people.

Just wanted to follow up my post about speaking up to my manager as I can’t believe what has happened in my org (third sector-adjacent), and it has been unbelievably positive! Although my male boss kept our conversation to himself, the subject came up again in a wider team meeting this week and our director - not a feminist of any stripe - has completely shut down any further statements from our vocal staff group and has rejected a great deal of further overreach outright.

To her, it is diluting our brand, divides colleagues, is confusing for customers and leaves us open to legal trouble if we don’t comply with the ruling, and that is that. She saw what the group had already put out was led by feelings and not facts, and has had words, because they can’t be seen to be speaking for the whole company - they will not be allowed to put anything out when the guidance comes out either.

This director considers herself an ally but simply has not been satisfied by any answer she’s had as to why pronouns or lanyards etc make anyone more of an ally than someone who doesn’t use them.

This has all been led by common sense with emotion taken out of it, and she’s had to make a case against her peers with hugely vested interests, and it’s all stuck. I nearly fell off my fecking chair.

It’s just been one person in senior management, with no agenda, asking questions and not believing the answers were good enough to risk the reputation of the business on that has put the brakes on it all.

So my speaking out didn’t do a thing, but bloody hell I’m lucky that there are people able to do something that saw the bigger picture so clearly. I hope the rest of you help to make progress - it apparently is possible!

Totally sympathise. Over on the NHS audit thread we come into contact daily and repeatedly with policies that entirely centre trans people at the very clear expense of women (and children, and people with dementia, etc). If you felt like contributing there (it’s all totally anonymous) we would love to have you. But even if not, know that there is a small group of angry women who are trying to fight your corner.

That's great news. Someone asking questions, looking at the facts, and prepared to make decisions based on sensible business principles. A good, effective leader.

Every contribution - including yours to your manager - will add to the situation. Your speaking out may well have done a thing, to your immediate work colleague at least. And then this director's decision will chime with what your manager had already heard from you, and the sense of it will be reinforced because of that.

“We pay their salaries, they should worship us!” Get over yourself and right off that high horse. You “pay” for SO much worse with your taxes.

Is there ever not something about trans people on this sub? I honestly think the name should be changed.

You need the Feminism: Chat sub if you want your feminism without opinions about sex and gender. This is Feminism, Sex and Gender - the clue is in the title.

Lol.
What's that phrase ?
"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt"