So, which side is catholic, and which side protestant ?

[SerendipityJane]

Just browsing a couple of podcasts about the reformation, and I was suddenly struck by the parallels in language and commitment to a world view between the early reformation (crispy catholics etc) and the current spat with TRAs and science.

To the extent that either I am alone in my own little universe (which I am quite happy with, thank you) or someone else must have noticed.

Anyway it does provide for a brief distraction if you want to not only examine the parallels, but suggests which side equates to which.

I guess someone, somewhere is working on a PhD around the western christian manifestation of the current transgender discussions. If not they have have that one on me 😎

Jesus, Mary, Holy St Joseph and the wee donkey, things are complicated enough without this, SerendipityJane! Away with you and your notions!

There are a lot of parallels with the reformation, religious zealots, the requiring people to sign up, literally, to 'I believe what you tell me and I absolutely do not have any naughty thoughts of my own despite that I was living in a completely different belief until yesterday and that was fine then', with menaces for non compliance and heresy, and yes a number of the more insane in this political field would very gladly embrace burning heretics and as many women as they can fit into the category as an excuse to harm them.

But this would be more a conflict between religious extremism of one belief system and those perfectly happy for those believers to pray and do the rites and whatever else if they do not invade everyone else's spaces, and require everyone else to convert and perform the belief too. It's essentially extremist fundamentalism of a novel type, and atheists/people believing in reality, tolerance, multi culturalism, ethics and social contracts. And actions and words matching each other, and being applied equally to all. You know, words such as 'equality' and 'kindness'.

Incidentally JKR is welcome to hide in the priest hole I have installed any time she wants. I promise coffee, good books and a lot of cake when she's hiding between leading the appalling heretical wicked rituals, like women saying 'we have rights too'. And 'that's a man'.

I don’t think transideology can be compared to Christianity. Yes there have been destructive elements within Christian organised religion but I can’t see any easy parallels with the reformation.

On the plus side noone is actually being murdered for their beliefs.

At least not wholesale anyway.

Not the belief systems: the political infliction. And the sacred group, with the leaders who understand things as the huddled masses cannot. And the sacred texts.

Ah yes, there is that. I was thinking more in theological terms on Catholic vs Protestant rather action that took place during the reformation.

Indeed, millions died across Europe during the thirty year war as power was wrested away from the Roman Catholic Church.

I wonder if you could draw a parallel between the invention of the printing press and social media? Both reduced control over news/books/ideas by the elite.

"Justification by faith alone" (Sola Fide) is a core doctrine of Protestantism

I’ve got a degree in history and theology and that question has given me a nose bleed! 😉

I’ve just seen that the inventor of the printing press put it to early use printing out thousands of indulgences. Indulgences being a bit like Stonewall cookies, and a useful fundraiser for the Catholic Church. Pay enough and not only are you forgiven, but your grandchildren are too. Justification by faith alone would definitely have got in the way of raising the money to build St Peter’s Basillica in Rome.

Now look what you started, SerendipityJane!
Any minute now it will be and trans-substantiation versus con-substantiation, and it will all end in tears

Which side does the most marching? 🤔

It's not about the beliefs. It's about whether the believers think they have the right to force it on the rest of us. So, rather than RC v Protestant, you've got the Spanish Inquisition (or the Puritans, or the Taliban, or any Marxist government) on one side, and liberal democracy/pluralism/secularism on the other.

Beliefs in secularism and pluralism can force themselves on others too.

Con-substantiation or Cis-substantiation?

You'll have to explain that to me.

During the 19th century in Britain, there was debate about whether Catholicism was a foreign belief system committed to social policies that could never be British. Countering this, English Catholics argued that Catholics in Italy were Cis-Alpine Catholics, & their social beliefs were cultural, not part of the Faith. English Catholics were Trans-Alpine Catholics, equally committed to the Faith, but with a different culture to cis Catholics. Cracks me up trans & cis were used in this way.

One of the social effects of early Protestantism was the stripping away of choices from (and respect for) women, both in society by closing convents, taking away those places where women were educated and could live intellectual and productive lives independent of men, and by removing the women saints who offered such a wide range of female role models to men and women.

Even the Bible got abridged to remove Judith, Tobias' mother and wife, and the grammatically female personification of Wisdom.

Not that the Catholic church bigs up Judith either, these days, can't imagine why not. But she's there in scripture.

In the early modern period women were either wives and mothers, or servants, or witches. Remember the witch burnings were a Protestant thing.

I know which side is offering a restrictive view of women's choices these days.

So I’m an English Catholic does that make me trans 😯

Remember the witch burnings were a Protestant thing.

Catholics burned witches too and others found guilty of heresy, including Joan of Arc

In NI it would be the Catholics (politically speaking) who are TRAs, not the Protestants

Which one leaves the toaster out on the side?

Any minute and you will want Transubstantiation explained! Fwiw, Catholics believe in transubstantiation and Protestants (for the most part and exclude the CofE for the some part, but some agree with Protestants) don't believe in it. But really it has no possible relation to trans frights, which are a load of bollocks.

Nobody ever suggested Joan was a witch. She was burned for committing treason against the (English) King.