Barry Wall’s grift

[Warriorwomen]

It’s just come to light through Venice Allen that Barry Wall has been charging women £60 per month for zoom classes on how to be a warrior woman?! Did anyone here give him money? He was a trans rights activist and Venice has the receipts that show he has been been hostile towards women
x.com/roseveniceallan/status/1926934164701393248?s=46

I might be wrong, but I get the impression that the stages are...

(1) I support Equality Diversity and Inclusion because that is how we ensure that the best people get the job even if they are women or LGB or black
(2) I support Equity Diversity and Inclusion because I supported Equality Diversity and Inclusion and I don;t really know how equity differs from equality.
(3) I have just learnt what equity is. I hate Equity Diversity and Inclusion, which means I hate all "EDI" because the E refers to equity now.
(4) Meritocracy is everything.
(5) Back to (1)

I am tempted to say that Barry might be at stage (4), and he will only revert to stage (1) when he is certain that modern EDI is 100% anti-woke, anti-TQ+ ideology, and anti "equity".

I am back at stage (1).

Barry might argue that it is too soon to go back to stage (1), or that the final stage is "meritocracy is everything (and obviously we have to make sure LGB and women are not discriminated against in order to have meritocracy. But that does not mean we need EDI of any description".

I hope that others can correct me if they feel I am misrepresenting him or the course.

This is really interesting - thanks @JamieCannister I follow his SubStack & YouTube, but don't pay so I see a very limited version of his position. (My principle is to pay for women's content, so I subscribe to Julie Bindel).

The tricky bit is to balance meritocracy with accounting for the deep & structural disadvantages suffered by women and (some) people of colour.

One really interesting approach is by the Australian sociologist (whose name escapes me, argh!!) who argues we should focus on male advantage, rather than female disadvantage. It's an interesting mind switch.

Thank you for answering my questions @JamieCannister

I'm not really comfortable with this tactic of accusing someone of "grifting" when you have an issue with other things they have said. Same accusation is levelled against KJK for selling merch by people who don't like things that she has said.

100%.

If anyone has evidence of poor opinions or conduct then evidence it. If anyone has evidence of "grifting" then evidence it. Do not conflate the two.

I think he is doing good work and trying to earn an honest living. I am not aware of anyone who has signed up having an issue with the way he runs the Winning Mindset / Warrior Teacher programme... either a problem with his business practices or content. Given you can cancel any time, it hardly seems likely that anyone who had signed up would have a big problem. Worst case is you cancel the automated payment and leave the course!

Running a business is not a grift. Nobody is forcing you to buy from it. Only people who have never been self-employed or run a business come out with this sort of nonsense.

I don’t know much about this particular situation but on the whole I tend to agree while also having mixed thoughts sometimes.

I think people need to be able to financially support themselves and thereby their activism. If the product/service they’re offering is priced fairly and is useful to the buyer then I don’t see a huge issue. No-one should be made to feel compelled to spend money on every request for funding.

I am also cognisant that some people in the past have treated the GC movement as a source of funding and have made one too many trips to the well for my comfort.

But at the same time, we’re all adults and if the people seeking funding are above board and honest with why they want support and what they will give in return for your donation then we have to allow people to make adult choices as to whether or not to participate.

Also a lot of the people seeking donations or monthly subscriptions have put their heads above the parapet and been made unemployed as a result. The almost patron-artist type relationship might be the only option for them.

It’s all, as usual, complicated and I would hope that people could spot a genuine grift over accusations of grifting made in bad faith.

Sorry maybe i didn't communicate well. I think it's a grift because Barry used to make money by running a trans activist organisation and then he did a completer about turn and started to make money from running a gc organisation. Presumably he'll start making money from Israel Palestine soon

It would appear that your view is that he is, by definition, grifting simply because (you allege) he has gone from making money out of trans activism, to the reverse.

I would counter that firstly by suggesting that making money out of training [people and/or companies] is fine, and changing the content of what you teach as you learn new things, consider things differently and have a change of opinion is perfectly fine. I think there are a lot of people (incl. on this board) who did not start out as fully GC.

I do not know his full work history or precisely what he has taught in the past. I do not know if he was ever "running a trans activist organisation", but he seems to have - at a minimum - worked on projects that are "pro trans". If you are able to evidence his precise role and precisely what he was advocating I would love to see it.

From what I can make out he has a background in teaching / education. He has done a lot of work in and around EDI, which means that broadly speaking until 2015 he would not have needed to be doing much trans related stuff at all. By around 2018 he was moving out of the EDI field because of the conflict between trans rights and LGB / women's rights, and because the original purpose of EDI - to ensure meritocracy by ensuring underprivileged minorities were not overlooked - was being replaced by equity (quotas for minorities, potentially illegal, to ensure diversity, but not diversity of thought).

As far as I can see the potential legitimate criticisms relate to what he might have been doing 2015-2018 (when loads of us had not spotted the dangers of TQ+ ideology, and bearing in mind I have no evidence he was ever pushing for trans privileges such as men in women's spaces or that gay men should be open to dating TIFs). I suspect / believe that the whole reason he is doing what he is doing now is because he is a teacher by trade, he needs to earn a living, and he was forced out of his previous role because he could not support the way trans/EDI was going. I KNOW that he 100% believes that sex is real and matters and TQ+ ideology is incredibly dangerous.

I KNOW that he 100% believes that sex is real and matters and TQ+ ideology is incredibly dangerous.

And the biggest threat to gay men are straight women. Yet he is happy to take straight woman dollar.

No doubt Venice and the manufactured uproar will form part of some session where another woman gets evicerated for an opinion she never had. He even said he was going to get legal advice over her response. So sick of these bloody men and their stupid rage engagement rants.

Are you suggesting that he - as a service provider - should break the EA2010 and illegally discriminate against all straight women (and lose maybe 80% of his customer base, at a guess), because he believe that a tiny minority of straight women are a threat to gay men? Is that honestly your position?

You are sick of (gay) men angrily ranting against the homophobic and predatory behaviour of a tiny minority of straight women? Are you suggesting gay men should shut up because TQ+ harms women and lesbians more than it harms gay men? That seemed to be Venice's position "oooh silly lying Barry, worrying about gay men when us women are the real victims here". Or is it men more widely? Are men not allowed to fight for single sex spaces for men? Are men not allowed to fight for truth, meritocracy, reality, biology and evidence based medicine, because the deliberate destruction of women's rights, language and spaces by TIMs is the single biggest TQ+ related issue?

From what I could see he made a video expressing his opinion, that was "inspired by" and referenced Venice, because he was disgusted by her complete and utter dismissal of his experience as a gay man and the way a tiny minority of straight women predate on gay men.

Considering what we know about the cohort of children at the Tavistock gender clinic and the jokes about 'transing away the gay', I personally feel that the voices of gay men standing aginst this damaging ideology are welcome and needed.

It would just be nice if they didn't tell lesbians to [rude] their [piece of male anatomy] and [well, it is vile so I cannot say] and call them ultras and slag them off on their podcasts around the world and call them sociopaths when they point out the damage the likes of D Hayton did and make videos about them misrepresenting their views and calling them evil.

That would be grand. The women who have been in this fight far longer and who raised the alarm are getting trashed week in week out by men. The fact that many are gay is a coincidence I guess. Every week they take another one down.

I am sick of men taking women down yes.

I am sick of them picking on women and then wailing when they stick up for themselves.

Are you accusing Barry Wall of any of this? Or are you simply saying that some gay men - presumably on both side of the #nodebate - are not very nice?

In this context you are sick of Barry Wall because he disgrees with Venice Allan on the affects of TQ+ ideology on gay men (like Barry) and had the temerity to mention her in the context of a wider video explaining his position? And you think that is picking on her?

And you think that accusing someone of "grifting" with no evidence is "sticking up for themselves"?

I note that you have not sought to justify your previous implied call for Barry to illegally discriminate against straight women.

I'm not saying he should illegally discriminate against them, maybe just not misrepresent them, post videos about them, not tell them or give them a right of reply and then call them evil and say they are looking at taking legal action implying they have done something that needs legal action when it was him that started it all in the first place.

And maybe not say repeatedly that the biggest threat to gay men is straight women. You are making out like I am making the 'gay' thing an issue. That's him, not me! I'd like all men to just stop it.

They [many many men] do this. Yes. It's all been documented.

They [many many men] are not nice to women. Barry thinks that straight women are a threat to gay men. Those are his words, not mine.

Does Barry think "straight women are a threat to gay men" or does he think "a tiny tiny proportion of straight women, who identify as gay men, are a threat to gay men"? I believe that he thinks the latter, and believe that he made that clear in the video concerned (I do not have time to relisten to double check).

Obviously lots of men (and gay men, and women, and lesbians) are not very nice. Misogynistic men, often gay, being a particular problem for women. I don't see that Barry Wall has been nasty to Venice, but I perceive accusing Barry of grifting with no evidence is very nasty. Maybe I missed something.

Do you believe that no straight woman is a threat to gay men?

Are you saying that he was lying when he described the experience of seeing a straight woman effectively set her three male friends on a gay man who says he is not interested in women?

'We can safely tell you that the biggest problem for gay people are straight women'

Are his words not mine.

I never mentioned his comments about what happened, I am concerned with his attempts to attack women who did not say the thing he accused them of saying, and not giving them a heads up or a right of reply and the implying they have done something that he needs legal advice on when they respond, not on his justification of why he is attacking them.

He started this whole charade.

Are you saying he needed to be explicit that he did not mean all straight women, or are you saying that straight women are not the biggest problem for gay men? (I am assuming he said 'gay men' and you misstyped when you said 'gay people')

I think it is obvious he didn't mean all straight women, and I think it is obvious that Barry knows more about the problems TQ+ causes gay men than Venice does.

I don't have the time to forensically look at every last element of background, but my perspective from what I did see (and I did spend a fair bit of time yesterday) is tha Venice angered him by dismissing his experience and perspective, and his "crime" was to mention her when making a video explaining why he believes what he believes. The only truly poor behaviour I saw was Venice accusing him of grifting with no evidence.

Are you saying he needed to be explicit that he did not mean all straight women, or are you saying that straight women are not the biggest problem for gay men? (I am assuming he said 'gay men' and you misstyped when you said 'gay people')

I didn't mistype - I cut and pasted his words.

I'm saying again that attacking a woman, by misrepresenting her, posting a video and not giving her a heads up, or a right of reply, saying he is going to get legal advice inferring that he needs legal advice after her response, and then calling her evil is a fight he started.

And in the aftermath it appears he thinks straight women are a threat to gay people and being that he said that in 2019, and is still saying it now, is another man having a pop at women who were in this long before he was.

I do think I've said that enough times now for you to get it!

I am sick of seeing week after week, men taking women down. I am allowed to be sick to the back teeth of men and their behaviour towards women which appears to be relentless. Maybe I should run a sweepstake on which 'nice bloke' will crack next weekend.

I think that Barry is telling you what to write @JamieCannister 😜

Men tend to behave in very male ways whether they are trans identifying men, gay men or other types of men. I think there is a bit of a tendency for some women to cut some gay men the slack they wouldn’t even cut other women.

That said, if people want to give 60 quid to Barry for what looks a lot like telling them what they want to hear, they can. Wish id thought of it.