The words that have been pulled over your eyes

[FlirtsWithRhinos]

I initially wrote this as a reply to a thread in relationships, but rather than derail the thread I decided to post it in FWR as a thread in its own right about a common accusation made against gender critical feminists.

It is a response to the claim that the only people who object to the word "cis" are people who deny the existence of trans women, and that such people are transphobes.

"Transphobe", like "trans woman" and indeed "cis woman", are just the words trans activists use to hide what is really going on.

These words exist to hide one simple truth: Trans women are not, in any objective, real way, in any way outside their own heads, in any way that is real to anyone else, any closer to being a woman than any other man is.

"Trans women" in reality are just men who for some reason feel compelled (or sometimes just really want ) to adopt a cross-sex persona playing out whatever their idea of what a woman is.

The words exist to make it sound like a reasonable thing when such men demand that their wives, children, friends and family, colleagues, officials, all of society pretend they are women, let them enter private spaces for women, let them touch or counsel women in roles reserved for women, let them take prizes for women, let them speak for women.

Because we'd never accept that as ok from men. But it's ok for trans women, and if it's not ok that's transphobia.

And we'd never say women in general are more privileged and powerful than men, but call the men trans women and the women cis women and suddenly everyone nods along. And if they don't it's transphobia.

But I don't believe the thing that makes men and women different is our minds. And without that belief, the whole thing falls apart.

*I do love my true self. Took a long time to get there - sure helped being able to look in the mirror and not feel crushing dysphoria. Helped even more existing in social groups while being perceived congruently. Took a good couple of years to get over the fear, but it was almost completely gone for decades until it came crashing back with a vengeance last month.

Something has to give. We can't exist like this. It's worse than it's ever been in my entire life.*

You are so tone-deaf and self-centred.

How do you think people feel who are born different, with facial birthmarks, for example, or unable to mobilise independently, or speak clearly, or people who acquire difference through illness or injury? Do you think they feel like a person with a fucking great haemangioma across their cheek, being stared at and asked by strangers whether they had been beaten up? Do you think they feel like a stuttering speaker, constantly interrupted by people too uncomfortable to listen to their gasping attempts to communicate? Maybe their true self is a smooth-cheeked Blue Peter presenter. Do they expect the world to pretend that they are 'congruent' with their true self? Do you pretend that their incongruence does not exist? Are you present in their mind, cheering them on? Are you focused on validating reality as they would wish it to be?

Bollocks you are! And bollocks they are! Everyone with such differences knows that to move forward and enjoy life we have to come to terms with reality, that our true self is the one that is present in the real world. We can dream, but nobody has to affirm our dreams.

The arrogance of trans.

100% this!
Apologies for the following stream of consciousness.

Given the nature of my work I would add that no one really wants to honestly discuss the drivers behind the rise in “trans” identifying young people.

Why not discuss the Exponential rise in the rates of young people identified as being on the autistic spectrum and the possible causes.

Why certain groups actively encourage early intervention and treatment. Constantly look at ways of reducing the safeguards and checks, provide information on how to access hormones illegally. Misrepresent the law.

I am appalled at the number of “professional “ people that are completely comfortable supporting/ encouraging young people to undergo life altering surgery, take drugs/ hormones which are completely incompatible with their basic biology. Already evidence exists showing the irreversible damage that results from such actions.

In Brighton, I personally know so many parents that genuinely see their own reflected “specialness” in having a trans child. why have a heathy but “average” child when you can have a “special” one.

But the reality is that so many young people dealing with puberty, an ever increasingly complex world, increased toxic masculinity, confusion over what it means to be an adult male or female and with limitless access to SM being told that all these problems are caused by the fact that their gender identity does not align with their biological sex.

Young girls being “lied to” and being told that they can delay the onset of menstruation with no consequences.

Over 1000 young woman having healthy breasts removed each year by the NHS.

Maybe being involved with the Criminal Justice system has just made me too cynical of people and their true motives. 😔

In summary:

Has Butterfly linked to the forum where people threatened to put him in an oven?

That would be a no.

Gawd. That's some picture!

Still, as I said, at least it helps people understand what we're talking about

Hyperbolic understatement of the year award winner is to be announced soon. Good luck I think that you have a good chance of winning it this year.

My “trans”clients are NOT SAFE to be around. They are guilty of some of most heinous crimes that you can imagine. Maybe my problem with your lovely warm world view of trans people is that we don’t mix with the same groups, or maybe we do.

I have worked with clients that everyone thought were the kindest, nicest, most sensitive, supportive people that they have ever met. Meanwhile they have being abusing their own children for years, allowed others to abuse their children.

So maybe appearances are not always what they seem!

Gosh, are we back to the passing myth again?

I remember that I have seen on twitter recently a male person who posts images of JK Rowling as some kind of passing gotcha. Yet when you look at their feed, they think they pass, I am sure they have been told by well meaning people that they pass. But them posting the JKR gotcha, means people look at the images that they have posted of them on their profile and they don’t pass in those images. There are several who do this.

I first noticed this one over Christmas declaring they pass and used that same set of photos of JK Rowling. They are doing it again. The only reason I noticed them was because they tried this trick. They obviously think it is clever.

Sorry. The gotcha that this male person on twitter obviously thinks is clever is that they post a collection of images of JK Rowling over the years to people who express doubt that they, the male person with a transgender identity, pass as being a woman.

I believe it is being done as a way to have people declare that JK Rowling is a non-passing male person.

This.

Just popping in to say I'm skimming that thread and got to the bit where butters special MN doesn't like me.

Not much of a surprise, if I'm honest.

What I am surprised about is the open denigration of our resident transman. And invoking World War II as a comparison to not using the ladies.

There's foot shooting, and then there's sawing it off with a rusty hacksaw covered in pus.

I think episode two will have to wait until tomorrow. The thread has, er, delighted me long enough

Have you tried a therapist?

Butterfly's self-centred posts have often prompted women to ask how Butterfly thinks others feel.

To be 'trans' is to claim to feel as the other sex feels. Yet it's striking how little evidence there is of any empathy at all.

Yeah, I shouldn't have risen.

@ButterflyHatched try being you for a few months continuosly, the friends you lose will only be the ones wanting a cool 'queer' mate.
The ones who are still there for you will be your genuine friends who accept the real you and will be happy for you.
You'll do your health a boost without taking unnecessary drugs and I'd expect you will feel stronger and more clearly with far less stress.

It's special isn't it?

Quite how you get to the point where you centre yourself quite this much is beyond me, unless you have a mentality that you are the only human and everyone else is actually a robot.

It's staggering and off the scale in terms of a total lack of empathy for anyone ever. To place yourself in history as being on a par as the persecuted in Nazi Germany is a grandiose victim complex.

But I suppose if you lie enough to yourself and no one challenges you about the fact you are male but you want the fantasy of being a woman there are no limits.

I had a think about this and wondered about living in a fantasy world:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fantasy-prone_personality
Fantasy-prone personality (FPP) is a disposition or personality trait in which a person experiences a lifelong, extensive, and deep involvement in fantasy. This disposition is an attempt, at least in part, to better describe "overactive imagination" or "living in a dream world". An individual with this trait (termed a fantasizer) may have difficulty differentiating between fantasy and reality and may experience hallucinations, as well as self-suggested psychosomatic symptoms.

And

Besides identifying this trait, Wilson and Barber reported a number of childhood antecedents that likely laid the foundation for fantasy proneness in later life, such as, "a parent, grandparent, teacher, or friend who encouraged the reading of fairy tales, reinforced the child's ... fantasies, and treated the child's dolls and stuffed animals in ways that encouraged the child to believe that they were alive."

And

People with Type 1 FPP will often confuse or mix their fantasies with their real memories. They also report out-of-body experiences, and other similar experiences that are interpreted by some fantasizers as psychic (parapsychological) or mystical. However, those with Type 2 have perfect ability to distinguish between reality and fantasy.

A paracosm is an extremely detailed and structured fantasy world often created by extreme or compulsive fantasizers.

Wilson and Barber listed numerous characteristics in their pioneer study, which have been clarified and amplified in later studies. These characteristics include some or many of the following experiences:

excellent hypnotic subject (most but not all fantasizers)
having imaginary friends in childhood
fantasizing often as child
having an actual fantasy identity
experiencing imagined sensations as real
having vivid sensory perceptions
receiving sexual satisfaction without physical stimulation

And

A high number of female fantasizers—60% of the women asked in the Wilson-Barber study—reported that they have had a false pregnancy (pseudocyesis) at least once. They believed that they were pregnant, and they had many of the symptoms. In addition to amenorrhea (stoppage of menstruation), they typically experienced at least four of the following: breast changes, abdominal enlargement, morning sickness, cravings, and "fetal" movements. Two of the subjects went for abortions, following which they were told that no fetus had been found. All of the other false pregnancies terminated quickly when negative results were received from pregnancy tests.

And

For example, one subject in Barrett's study said her parents' standard response to her requests for expensive toys was, "You could take this (household object) and with a little imagination, it would look just like (an expensive gift)."

• Exposure to abuse, physical or sexual, such that fantasizing provides a coping or escape mechanism.
• Exposure to severe loneliness and isolation, such that fantasizing provides a coping or escape mechanism from the boredom.

Regarding psychoanalytic interpretations, Sigmund Freud stated that "unsatisfied wishes are the driving power behind fantasies, every separate fantasy contains the fulfillment of a wish, and improves an unsatisfactory reality." This shows childhood abuse and loneliness can result in people creating a fantasy world of happiness in order to fill the void

And

Several studies have reported that dissociation and fantasy proneness are highly correlated. This suggests the possibility that the dissociated selves are merely fantasies, for example, being a coping response to trauma. However, a lengthy review of the evidence concludes that there is strong empirical support for the hypothesis that dissociation is caused primarily and directly by exposure to trauma, and that fantasy is of secondary importance.

I have many questions and thoughts that stem from this, and many that relate to the indulgence of such fantasies.

But honestly I think reading that, I'm seeing many themes that make me go "hmm that rings a fair few bells".

You can be whoever you want. I don't have to lie to be myself. It's wonderful. Less wonderful when the Supreme Court and EHRC decides that I have to start lying again, though. No concession that allows trans people to transition and exist in dignity will ever be enough.

Oh, did you work with Nicola Murray?

Hm, I'm not sure many would have thought she was the kindest, nicest, most sensitive, supportive person that they have ever met.

No concession that allows trans people to transition and exist in dignity will ever be enough.

What a telling statement.

What’s your point Butters? You do know there is more than one sex offender in the world? And the vast majority are men, however they identify.

Are you able to explain in what way the SC ruling and the EHRC guidance now impacts your right to exist as a transperson and how this differs to your previous existence.

Yes that whole utterly bizarre 'centre of my own film thing', would suggest you might be right

I can imagine someone who immerses themselves so fully in having to believe in philosophical belief that rejects material reality would also be someone who enjoys enacting fantasies. Maybe like drama groups, or fantasy medieval enactments, or even historically accurate dramatisations. It would be entirely consistent.

And I believe the scripted drama post technique has been used before with similar lack lustre reviews.

Thank you for such a wonderful demonstration of trying to pull the words over our eyes.

"I don't have to lie to be myself. It's wonderful."

What is behind the words: A man is claiming to be a woman and everyone else has to lie and agree that they see the man as a woman. That lie has to extend not just to what they have to say but also to what they have to allow him to do. It's wonderful for that man, but not everyone else.

"No concession that allows trans people to transition and exist in dignity will ever be enough"

What is behind the words: A man believes that something inside him makes him more like a woman than other men, and that inner feeling somehow justifies treating him as if he actually is fenale-bodied. He expects women to accept his presence and potentially even touch where they would not accept another man, whether that is in physical spaces, protected roles or women-only opportunities. The man believes his conception of womanhood has more authority than that of actual women and he is angry that others do not agree to this and do not accede to accomodating his expectation. He believes women saying no to the pretence that he is not a man offends his dignity.

Yes, I think you might be onto something.