Polling of the SC judgement in favour of biological sex

[FarriersGirl]

Article in the Times just now. It seems that the general public has more sense than politicians and public sector employers. Great quote by Maya

Maya Forstater, chief executive of Sex Matters, said: “This polling shows that many of the UK’s most prominent organisations, from the NHS to unions and large companies, are wildly adrift from public opinion, following years of paying large sums of money for their own trans indoctrination.

https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/half-of-labour-voters-back-supreme-court-ruling-on-biological-sex-vqgnhtvpw

https://archive.is/IYSjs

Thanks for sharing. Clearly we’re not in the minority in welcoming the judgement.

Share token for the comments

https://www.thetimes.com/article/c7089eca-438d-4086-82a7-05c141fc6d99?shareToken=b798d87f807f30adaa7d7e6467451dcc

Though as usual, I am suprised at how many support the other side.

" just 31 per cent of under-24s agreeing with the Supreme Court decision compared with 72 per cent of 50 to 64-year-olds."

I can only assume that those under-24s are cognitively immature, as the Scottish Sentencing Council would say.

"There was also strong backing for sports bodies restricting women’s teams based on biological sex: 74 per cent said this was the right decision, 12 per cent said it was the wrong decision and 14 per cent did not know."

So 12% of people think that women's sports should include men?! It's just so obvious to me that I don't understand why that percentage isn't less than 1%, with those agreeing with it either being trans themselves or not understanding the question.

I think it might be due to the trans rates being 1 in 75 for under 25s and 1 in 93 for under 35s. If you know someone who transitioned as a teen or is one of your school mates your more likely to be sympathetic compared to someone dealing with the abrupt transition of Bob from accounts who turns up one Monday morning in fetish gear. They’ve been taught this at school. And being younger they’ll tends towards being more optimistic or not understanding others’ POVs because of the confidence of youth. TransgenderIsm isn’t going anywhere. It will be incorporated into everyday life but in a much more moderate form and in unisex style facilities. The debate they didn’t want will happen and the public will take it there so trans people will be accepted in society but they’ll need to fund their own treatment (if it’s not a mental illness then the legal convention that the NHS pays is removed) and it will be via third/unisex spaces. Hopefully they’ll be tight controls on children’s transition. There will be issues surrounding issues of sex and deception for the puberty blocked cohort which will be worked through the courts in a drawn out way. And women forevermore will be on high alert watching the lawmakers and not taking our rights for granted. Then after a while the osteoporosis cases and all the early deaths will start to come to the fore. Fingers will be pointed. There will be scandals - you never told us etc yes we did. GI will slip back in numbers to a tiny minority because it will become old fashioned and mainstream. Might take 20-40 years depending on the medical issues and how quickly all that comes out. Shame we can’t just short circuit it all and all the pain/difficulties which are surely to come and agree a sensible consensus now?

Thanks OP. That is heartening to read.

Starmer backed the right horsey eventually. He’d have doubled down on the female penis thing if he thought he’d get a vote out of it, cxnt.

Re medical conditions caused by gender medicalisation . I keep hearing about the long term negative effects/impact but also watched many vids of older 50plus that did it years ago and not the health correlation I would have expected, but maybe they (detrans) don’t talk about it? Are the long term negative effects of medicalisation proven? Are there any stats? Honestly if they end up a hairy woman without breasts is bad enough imo . Is it worse for women? Probably as evething usual is!

I don't have any of the science to hand to quote, but from memory the research on long term medical outcomes is often of poor quality. Studies are of dubious design and long term follow up compromised by high drop out rates. It is almost tough transgender medicine is not really interested.

Thanks for all these links, much appreciated.

Re the long-term effects on health - are there any reliable stats on this? There will be long-term research on women who've had hysterectomies long before menopause for medical reasons, but those who have had hormone therapy as well will have been given oestrogen (and progresterone?), not testosterone.

It was vanishingly rare until recently for girls and women to have medical and surgical treatment purely to try to look more like men. Professor Stephen Whittle is one of the few who did follow this path. Whittle is 70 this year.

The health impacts are different for men and women and also depend on how much surgery they have had and when they had it. Men dont normally get their cock and balls removed, women often get their breasts removed.

Yes a lot of research is of poor quality because there has been opposition to, and refusal to co-operate with, any research. There is actually a higher suicide rate in those who transitioned in the past, lots of debate about why. Debate too about what impact it will have on the brain when hormones are started young.

Yes it's probably worse for women because they go through an early menopause - and they usually have surgery when men dont. You really dont want to try and read up on the complications if men do have surgery, they are horrendous. The quoted complication rates are about 3 in 4 for men having surgery.

Some people, mainly detransitioners, do talk about it but their stories are pretty harrowing.

I know a TW who spent two years with a colostomy after bottom surgery. They had been assured it was a well-established procedure, going back decades, and there were hardly ever complications.

I’d remembered seeing a picture of Whittle in a wheelchair so googled and found they have MS. Interestingly MS symptoms may increase with drop in oestrogen post menopause - tho no proper studies to confirm how/how much etc

Re the poll, I would have liked to see the results divided by sex. But these MPs doubling down are really the pits. And why?

I checked last night on yougov but couldn’t see this. Has anyone seen the data released on yougov yet?

Sometimes they take some time to release the data.

There are risks attached to all surgery. It can be an established procedure and still go wrong. But the way it’s talked about “top” or “bottom” seems designed to make it appear almost superficial - when it’s really not!

Thanks for posting the poll results here. I was really happy to see this review of average people and about the sex data being included. So many in institutions seem to be completely out of touch thinking it was only the Orwellian “proles” who were objectors. Nope - you’ll have to think again…

I find that really bleak. And I think it demonstrates the corrosive effect of the degree of capture in schools, and especially in universtities.

Increasingly these days, I think that on universities, Pol Pot had a point! 😛 A whole generation of our brightest and best, the people who will be running the country in future years, believes this bollix!

Enjoy the TRA Reddit frothing

https://www.reddit.com/r/transgenderUK/s/fJipEQxLf5

my particular comment highlights:

“It's baffling how Sex Matters can have any kind of platform after Joyce has literally word for word said on multiple occasions, during public panels, their goal is to use sympathy gained from wedge issues like kids, sports and single sex spaces to eradicate trans people.”

”literally word for word” eh?

”I wonder what the poll would conclude if they’d asked say, a random number of the general public in London’s Parliament Square on say, 19 April 2025?”

well, asking people at a trans protest about the ruling what they think about the ruling isn’t going to be “random”, is it?

You're always more radical when you're young. Although you saying Pol Pot had a point suggests that with age doesn't necessarily come wisdom.

I think the Times article is based on an advance release but will keep an eye on YouGov for the detailed data.

Exactly! We accept the risk of life-saving surgery. Elective surgery is another matter.

Nadia Whittome, the MP for Nottingham East, said there was nothing in law prohibiting trans women from using female toilets and trans men from using male toilets.

She’s right though. There is nothing in law preventing any man using a women’s toilets. We just expect them to be decent and respect women.

The law says that if toilets are female only they should not include males.

Is your take on it that the law applies to organisations and not to individuals?

30% of Labour voters disagreeing is still a lot.

They must feel that to disagree makes sure no one will mistake them for being ‘far-right’ Daily Mail readers. As long as they feel they have the right label they don’t need to think too hard.