Page 16 | Good Law Project suing the EHRC and Bridget Phillipson - letter before action

OhBuggerandArse · 2025-05-16T14:30:02+00:00

Sorry if this has already been shared - here are the links to their letter and statement. Looking forward to the Mumsnet analysis :-) [[https://goodlawproject.org/were-bringing-a-legal-challenge-to-the-ehrcs-interim-update/ https://goodlawproject.org/were-bringing-a-legal-challenge-to-the-ehrcs-interim-update]] [[https://goodlawproject.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/05/Letter-to-the-Equality-and-Human-Rights-Commission-16-May-2025_Redacted.pdf https://goodlawproject.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/05/Letter-to-the-Equality-and-Human-Rights-Commission-16-May-2025_Redacted.pdf]]

DuchessofReality · 22/05/2025 08:59

I think this (probably false) concern for women being challenged as 'looking too male' to go into a female space comes from the thought that someone being 'misgendered' feels deep hurt.

Which probably is the case if you are male and you want everyone to treat you as a woman.

Thing is, my knowledge that I am female does not need any external validation. If someone thinks that I am male, they are wrong and I am right. If ever it came to 'proof' they would be wrong and I would be right. If I was briefly challenged and the person then realised their mistake (which is overwhelmingly the most likely scenario) I would reassure them that I too wanted female spaces to be exclusively female. It would not affect the rest of my day in the slightest.

If you are female, I really don't see that 'being challenged' assuming the person challenging has the best of intentions to keep female spaces female, is that much of a problem.

ArabellaScott · 22/05/2025 08:59

NecessaryScene · 22/05/2025 08:48

Thinking about it - I guess the founding view is that men are real people.

Women, not being men, aren't real people.

But imaginary women work like a double negative - the non-reals cancel out and they become real people again.

If you imagine 'women' relates to a - what was the phrase? A 'swirling miasma', or am I misremembering? Then yes, 'woman' is a concept that consists of sugar and spice and all that's nice, and has nothing at all to do with base biological issues.

It's quite comically squeamish, the 'genderist' idea of women. All perky tits, no inconvenient blood.

Ddakji · 22/05/2025 09:05

teawamutu · 22/05/2025 08:41

I'm going to feel sorry for her on the grounds of being a fellow human on whom I wouldn't wish cancer.

While continuing to wonder what kind of woman remains married to one of the most obnoxious misogynists I can think of.

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Sure, I can feel sorry for her for having cancer. But she is just as complicit as her husband and has used her mastectomy to push against sex realist views herself. So any sympathy I have is severely constricted by that.

KnottyAuty · 22/05/2025 09:05

Brainworm · 22/05/2025 08:37

JM’s positioning in the mastectomy posts is that of wanting to protect the feelings of women when they are missexed and concern that this could lead to them having trouble accessing women only spaces. We too are worried about women’s feelings (not just limited to any upset if they are missexed) and to women being able to access women only spaces. We seem to have found some common ground!

Does this mean that if we resolved the issue of women being inappropriately challenged about their right to use female only spaces, JM would be happy?

He is throwing everything and the kitchen sink at trying to justify why the SC ruling is wrong.

He pulls in those who have little interest or skin in the game, as they buy into what, at a glance, could appear to be an injustice. I guess this is why he keeps going. That and the Japanese Soldier issue.

It doesn’t hold up to scrutiny, and at some level he knows this.

From the podcast interview he talked about a fight against authority “breathing saliency” into his lungs. I’m assuming any of his actions aren’t so much about the women so much…. Maybe we need to find him a new campaign to help him feel relevant again?

KnottyAuty · 22/05/2025 09:06

DuchessofReality · 22/05/2025 08:59

I think this (probably false) concern for women being challenged as 'looking too male' to go into a female space comes from the thought that someone being 'misgendered' feels deep hurt.

Which probably is the case if you are male and you want everyone to treat you as a woman.

Thing is, my knowledge that I am female does not need any external validation. If someone thinks that I am male, they are wrong and I am right. If ever it came to 'proof' they would be wrong and I would be right. If I was briefly challenged and the person then realised their mistake (which is overwhelmingly the most likely scenario) I would reassure them that I too wanted female spaces to be exclusively female. It would not affect the rest of my day in the slightest.

If you are female, I really don't see that 'being challenged' assuming the person challenging has the best of intentions to keep female spaces female, is that much of a problem.

100% this

viques · 22/05/2025 09:08

I’m back ! Quick reader? No, skimmed it , all 32 pages, and to save anyone else the trouble it’s all about toilets. Toilets, toilets, toilets.

And irritatingly uses the word trans as an adjective “trans woman”, “trans man”.

Don’t get me started on the work experience intern who has proudly signed the letter , could they not find a single person prepared to sign their actual name on behalf of “themselves”?

More cake please.

WallaceinAnderland · 22/05/2025 14:52

Is that true? Thousands of women have had to have mastectomies because of cancer. I cannot believe they would be challenged in a changing room.

Well no, because they're women. So why would anyone challenge them. This doesn't make any sense. Even if they were transmen, they'd still be female and entitled to be in a female only single sex space.

He doesn't understand the law does he.

MotherofTeenGirl · 22/05/2025 15:56

MarieDeGournay · 16/05/2025 17:57

I suppose anything is possible, as the past decade or so has horrifyingly demonstrated..

But stepping back and trying to be objective - this is all about toilets??
It's not about not being allowed vote, or only being allowed to shop for groceries between the hours of 8am and 9.30am, or having to step off the pavement to allow Gender Critical woman to pass, or being forced to tidy litter from the side of the A13 for 10 hours a day using only a hall-marked silver Georgian sugar tongs...

It's not even about toilets, as in 'we physically can't use them' - which was the origin of the campaign for accessible toilets for disabled people which started in the 1960s - it's about which toilets they prefer to use, for very their own very abstract reasons.

I'd like to think that they'll be told to feck off and stop bothering us reframe their trauma that they don't have a case, but like I said, anything is possible🙄

I Really believe that the focus on toilets is a distraction. It frames the gender critical movement as petty, and side-steps the real concerns that women have allowing men into a whole range of vulnerable women’s spaces, and roles that allow intimate touching of women against their will.

FlirtsWithRhinos · 22/05/2025 16:05

MotherofTeenGirl · 22/05/2025 15:56

I Really believe that the focus on toilets is a distraction. It frames the gender critical movement as petty, and side-steps the real concerns that women have allowing men into a whole range of vulnerable women’s spaces, and roles that allow intimate touching of women against their will.

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Yes, but also because it's an everyday activity that everyone does and it's pretty much binary, and that means TRAs can make it personal to everyone. No handwaving or "other people's problem", every trans person has to decide every time whether they are going to pee with their body or their deep inner soul.

It's also why pronouns amd language appropriation have become a big deal. They force women to make an immediate and personal decision between being "kind" to trans identifying people's ideas of identity and maintaining the truth of their own experiences just to be able to speak about a trans person.

Keeptoiletssafe · 22/05/2025 16:06

MotherofTeenGirl · 22/05/2025 15:56

I Really believe that the focus on toilets is a distraction. It frames the gender critical movement as petty, and side-steps the real concerns that women have allowing men into a whole range of vulnerable women’s spaces, and roles that allow intimate touching of women against their will.

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I would love to not have to talk about toilets. My family are fed up too! However, the design of them has been getting worse for years which means the risks of coming to harm in them has increased. If single sex loos mean single sex loos then the designs will change from becoming enclosed and everyone will be safer. Especially children, women and medically vulnerable. It is the very best time to talk about toilets as, if I can get these points across in the next few weeks, it could prevent assaults and save lives.

MotherofTeenGirl · 22/05/2025 17:20

@FlirtsWithRhinos@Keeptoiletssafe
Good points, and definitely agree

RedToothBrush · 22/05/2025 17:25

So he's sent a letter before action and then has dropped a dead cat.

He has no intention of following the letter up with action. He's trying to distract us all from this.

SabrinaThwaite · 22/05/2025 18:53

KnottyAuty · 22/05/2025 09:05

From the podcast interview he talked about a fight against authority “breathing saliency” into his lungs. I’m assuming any of his actions aren’t so much about the women so much…. Maybe we need to find him a new campaign to help him feel relevant again?

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How about pointing him at Surfers Against Sewage?

That could lead to some interesting conversations at the Maugham dinner table.

RedToothBrush · 22/05/2025 18:58

SabrinaThwaite · 22/05/2025 18:53

How about pointing him at Surfers Against Sewage?

That could lead to some interesting conversations at the Maugham dinner table.

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Don't we want to stop sewage?

I'm not sure that Maugham's success rate means you want to point him at a worthwhile cause.

Davros · 22/05/2025 19:46

ArabellaScott · 22/05/2025 08:29

I'm intrigued by the assertion that this is happening to thousands of women up and down the country every day.

On what is he basing this?

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We need to send this to More or Less on radio 4 “Tim Harford explains - and sometimes debunks - the numbers and statistics used in political debate, the news and everyday life”

eatfigs · 22/05/2025 19:59

All his invented scenarios, all his manipulative rhetoric don't matter one jot. The law is the law. As a lawyer he should know that.

ArabellaScott · 22/05/2025 20:01

Davros · 22/05/2025 19:46

We need to send this to More or Less on radio 4 “Tim Harford explains - and sometimes debunks - the numbers and statistics used in political debate, the news and everyday life”

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Fantastic idea.

Bannedontherun · 22/05/2025 20:05

I think Moylan is the banner carrier and whipping master for all the hysteria all over everywhere on line.

i think it unsurprising that there is a hullabaloo, You know it all snook up on us over a number of years, and the fight back has been bit by bloody bit and then….

the carpet has been whipped from under their feet.

Shazam just like that in one fell swoop. The whole legal facade.

It makes me think of Ripley and the aliens when she killed the product of her own DNA, by ensuring it got sucked out of the spaceship window into the void of space.

It was a slow bloody, screaming, pitiful mess.

As with the aliens it may come back in some other form,

Hopefully we are more at the ready, and we need to stay alert and armed to the teeth, politically speaking.

Another2Cats · 22/05/2025 22:35

RedToothBrush · 22/05/2025 17:25

So he's sent a letter before action and then has dropped a dead cat.

He has no intention of following the letter up with action. He's trying to distract us all from this.

For a moment there, I thought you were talking about my DH! (see my user name)

But then I realised that I was on a different thread. Sorry for the total off-topic response.

My DH is definitely following through on the letter before action in his case.

Merrymouse · 22/05/2025 22:59

FlirtsWithRhinos · 22/05/2025 16:05

Yes, but also because it's an everyday activity that everyone does and it's pretty much binary, and that means TRAs can make it personal to everyone. No handwaving or "other people's problem", every trans person has to decide every time whether they are going to pee with their body or their deep inner soul.

It's also why pronouns amd language appropriation have become a big deal. They force women to make an immediate and personal decision between being "kind" to trans identifying people's ideas of identity and maintaining the truth of their own experiences just to be able to speak about a trans person.

Edited

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Lots of people every day have to plan their outings around toilets, either because they are physically prevented from using most toilets or because they are always accompanied by small children or because they have to use toilets very frequently.

In comparison this is a discussion about people who are upset because they cannot use their preferred toilet.

Bannedontherun · 22/05/2025 23:05

Merrymouse · 22/05/2025 22:59

Lots of people every day have to plan their outings around toilets, either because they are physically prevented from using most toilets or because they are always accompanied by small children or because they have to use toilets very frequently.

In comparison this is a discussion about people who are upset because they cannot use their preferred toilet.

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Hmmm “preferred toilet” like helen Joyce said the men who wish to use women's toilets are the people that we most want to keep out.

borntobequiet · 23/05/2025 07:53

When my children were little I planned days out around toilet accessibility - not exclusively, but it was a serious consideration
Very heavy prolonged periods for most of my adult life meant access to toilets was a necessity and a source of anxiety for me
After gynaecological surgery in my 30s and later in my 40s this became even more important
When taking my elderly mother out and about in a wheelchair, important for both her and me
When taking my little granddaughters out and about, important for all of us
Now in my 70s, bladder problems are often a worry

I don’t think that I’m different from many women in the above, and in fact am thankful that I don’t have more serious conditions making access to safe, private facilities exclusively for the female sex so important.

CassOle · 23/05/2025 08:36

borntobequiet · 23/05/2025 07:53

When my children were little I planned days out around toilet accessibility - not exclusively, but it was a serious consideration
Very heavy prolonged periods for most of my adult life meant access to toilets was a necessity and a source of anxiety for me
After gynaecological surgery in my 30s and later in my 40s this became even more important
When taking my elderly mother out and about in a wheelchair, important for both her and me
When taking my little granddaughters out and about, important for all of us
Now in my 70s, bladder problems are often a worry

I don’t think that I’m different from many women in the above, and in fact am thankful that I don’t have more serious conditions making access to safe, private facilities exclusively for the female sex so important.

Yes, it's time for the men who identify as women to step up and start planning their days out around using unisex loos (if they don't want to use the mens).

Another2Cats · 23/05/2025 09:08

A little bit off-topic, but I came across this statement today:

"I have on my desk an Opinion from a prominent QC at the Tax Bar. In it, he expresses a view on the law that is so far removed from legal reality that I do not believe he can genuinely hold the view he says he has. At best he is incompetent. But at worst, he is criminally fraudulent: he is obtaining his fee by deception. And this is not the first such Opinion I have seen. Such pass my desk All The Time."

That does sound so much like a quote about Joylon Maugham or one of the KCs that he has apparently taken advice from.

But it was actually a quote by Joylon himself talking about another QC back in the day when he was still practising tax law.

I just find it quite ironic that how he used to describe others in one context is how he appears (to me at least) these days.
.

Link to article written by Joylon Maugham:

https://waitingfortax.com/2014/08/07/weak-transmission-mechanisms-and-boys-who-wont-say-no/

Weak transmission mechanisms – and Boys Who Won’t Say No.

I have on my desk an Opinion – a piece of formal tax advice – from a prominent QC at the Tax Bar. In it, he expresses a view on the law that is so far removed from legal reality that I …

https://waitingfortax.com/2014/08/07/weak-transmission-mechanisms-and-boys-who-wont-say-no/

Merrymouse · 23/05/2025 09:15

Another2Cats · 23/05/2025 09:08

A little bit off-topic, but I came across this statement today:

"I have on my desk an Opinion from a prominent QC at the Tax Bar. In it, he expresses a view on the law that is so far removed from legal reality that I do not believe he can genuinely hold the view he says he has. At best he is incompetent. But at worst, he is criminally fraudulent: he is obtaining his fee by deception. And this is not the first such Opinion I have seen. Such pass my desk All The Time."

That does sound so much like a quote about Joylon Maugham or one of the KCs that he has apparently taken advice from.

But it was actually a quote by Joylon himself talking about another QC back in the day when he was still practising tax law.

I just find it quite ironic that how he used to describe others in one context is how he appears (to me at least) these days.
.

Link to article written by Joylon Maugham:

https://waitingfortax.com/2014/08/07/weak-transmission-mechanisms-and-boys-who-wont-say-no/

The style is VERY Jolyon Maugham though.

"I have on my desk..."