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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Misogyny seems to have changed, and not for the better

105 replies

PopstarPoppy · 11/05/2025 17:28

When I was young (last century!), casual sexism was the norm, as were things like wolf-whistling, cars hooting at women/girls in skimpy outfits and men copping a feel in bars and clubs. None of it particularly bothered me, although I can understand why it bothered others, and I don’t believe it was right. But it seems that as attitudes that were almost unconscious have been stamped out, a much more sinister, deliberate form of misogyny has taken hold. I don’t know whether the two are related, because the latter is tangled up with gender identity politics, in particular the trans debate.

In the past, as glass ceilings were broken and women branched out into careers that were previously the preserve of men, I thought the years ahead would be better ones for women. Instead, it seems that the harder women have fought to be heard and treated fairly, the more they have been bullied and undermined, by companies, by the public sector, by media personalities – and even by a subset of (mostly young) biological women.

This has been underlined by the responses of so many to the recent SC ruling – with companies and public bodies finding every way to delay obeying the law and falling over themselves to publicise their support for those who have intimidated women. And the fact that, even now, women are repeatedly told to ‘be kind’ and asked ‘how we think transwomen feel’ about issues that have a huge impact on so many biological women makes it seem as nothing has really changed since the year dot. Women are still seen as ‘lesser’. And worst of all, fewer people now seem to view that as a problem.

OP posts:
DrBlackbird · 15/10/2025 08:23

AMansAManForAllThat · 15/10/2025 07:41

It’s a shame. I’m saddened that manners which recognised men’s strength advantage have died out. The book which I can’t remember the name of (😖 😶‍🌫️) showing the world’s design based on men makes it clear that it’s harder and more demanding for women to move through the world than men.

It’s a shame holding doors and offering seats is a thing of the past, in my increasingly lonely opinion.

But I’m barely holding up under fibro and face a heavy sprung door with dread so I’m biased!

Talking about chivalry, my father used to open the car door for any women he was driving. I think these days any man would be utterly confused by a women sitting in the car waiting for him to open the door lol.

Shortshriftandlethal · 15/10/2025 08:25

Howseitgoin · 15/10/2025 08:01

If you look for misogyny everywhere, you'll surely find it.

The reality is 0.5% of the population's loo preferences has no meaningful impact on most women's lives so its unlikely to be something the masses make a big deal about even if they agree in principle.

But you are onto something regarding "a much more sinister, deliberate form of misogyny has taking hold". It's called 'ignoring substantially more impactful women's issues like domestic & sexual violence in favour of loo policing'.

Says somebody who has clearly never been a young woman or girl.

Male supremacy and male entitlement are the atmospheric substance that girls are brought up in

Lilington · 15/10/2025 08:28

I agree except for your “copping a feel” comment.
I am glad that has mostly stopped as it happened to me and I still remember it and shiver 42 years later.

In general though I can grit my teeth and tolerate patronising stuff, being ogled etc much easier than the outright hatred of today.

Oh for a time travelling DeLorean!

Howseitgoin · 15/10/2025 08:39

Shortshriftandlethal · 15/10/2025 08:15

What do you mean by a'moral panic'?

You mean bringing up the notion that women and girls should receive social protections that cater to the dignity and the privacy of their sex, permitting them to participate and engage fully in public life?

Do you not consider that female people may have reasons for the privacy of their sex. Why do you think single sex spaces and facilities and categories were first introduced? Prudery?

Edited

They already did is the point. Nothing about the recent law clarification changes that.

Datun · 15/10/2025 08:39

If you look for misogyny everywhere, you'll surely find it.

Yes, that's the point. It's everywhere.

Howseitgoin · 15/10/2025 08:40

Shortshriftandlethal · 15/10/2025 08:25

Says somebody who has clearly never been a young woman or girl.

Male supremacy and male entitlement are the atmospheric substance that girls are brought up in

Edited

It's exactly because I am female that I know men don't use the ladies nor do they want to.

Shortshriftandlethal · 15/10/2025 08:41

Howseitgoin · 15/10/2025 08:40

It's exactly because I am female that I know men don't use the ladies nor do they want to.

Yet you are persistently arguing for the rights of males to do exactly that.

Greyskybluesky · 15/10/2025 08:42

men don't use the ladies nor do they want to.

Some of them want to. That's. The. Whole. Point.

Shortshriftandlethal · 15/10/2025 08:44

Howseitgoin · 15/10/2025 08:39

They already did is the point. Nothing about the recent law clarification changes that.

The recent ruling has not changed anything......apart from shattering the delusion that some special types of male people were permitted to use female facilities and services. The recent ruling clarified that this was never the case, and was never meant to be the case.

Howseitgoin · 15/10/2025 08:45

Greyskybluesky · 15/10/2025 08:42

men don't use the ladies nor do they want to.

Some of them want to. That's. The. Whole. Point.

Oh so it is 0.5% of the population you're yammering on about that the sky is falling down over?

Again, if you want to know why greater society don't care its because it doesn't affect them AND they have bigger fish to fry like surviving.

Datun · 15/10/2025 08:45

Um, men frequenting the ladies is a manufactured moral panic because if it were an issue it wouldn't have 'suddenly' become one.

Good Lord. Women don't want men using their toilets for all sorts of reasons. It's not sudden.

Being male, you've clearly never encountered the widespread hovering in single use loos that women have to do to stay off the seat because of men not being able to piss straight.

Greyskybluesky · 15/10/2025 08:47

Howseitgoin · 15/10/2025 08:45

Oh so it is 0.5% of the population you're yammering on about that the sky is falling down over?

Again, if you want to know why greater society don't care its because it doesn't affect them AND they have bigger fish to fry like surviving.

Men aren't 0.5% of the population in my country.

Maybe it's different on your planet in your country? 🤔

Shortshriftandlethal · 15/10/2025 08:47

Howseitgoin · 15/10/2025 08:45

Oh so it is 0.5% of the population you're yammering on about that the sky is falling down over?

Again, if you want to know why greater society don't care its because it doesn't affect them AND they have bigger fish to fry like surviving.

Do you really not understand points of principle, and of boundary?

Civil society operates on the basis of general principles and their application in law.

Once the integrity of a principle is infringed, it is no longer actionable.

Howseitgoin · 15/10/2025 08:47

Shortshriftandlethal · 15/10/2025 08:41

Yet you are persistently arguing for the rights of males to do exactly that.

In your 'misogyny is centred in the ladies loo' world. In mine women have real problems.

Datun · 15/10/2025 08:48

Howseitgoin · 15/10/2025 08:45

Oh so it is 0.5% of the population you're yammering on about that the sky is falling down over?

Again, if you want to know why greater society don't care its because it doesn't affect them AND they have bigger fish to fry like surviving.

I'll never understand how men don't think women care.

It may not be affecting them all because of the small numbers. But they absolutely care.

You only have to stand in line to a mixed sex toilet and listen.

Ah, I see the problem...

Shortshriftandlethal · 15/10/2025 08:49

Howseitgoin · 15/10/2025 08:47

In your 'misogyny is centred in the ladies loo' world. In mine women have real problems.

Women have all sorts of issues to deal with in their lives. Men forcing entry into spaces in which they have not been invited, and don't belong, is one of them.

Datun · 15/10/2025 08:50

Howseitgoin · 15/10/2025 08:47

In your 'misogyny is centred in the ladies loo' world. In mine women have real problems.

lol.

see if you can work how to help them while you're sitting on the gents toilets, though, not the ladies.

Howseitgoin · 15/10/2025 08:50

Shortshriftandlethal · 15/10/2025 08:47

Do you really not understand points of principle, and of boundary?

Civil society operates on the basis of general principles and their application in law.

Once the integrity of a principle is infringed, it is no longer actionable.

Edited

Again, the principle wasn't & isn't being infringed upon.

zazazaaar · 15/10/2025 08:51

Its a bit like how we all thought racism was on the decline until fucking Brexit and Farage.
The Internet and porn has made things worse.
I also think the trans debate has derailed feminism and taking it on a path where it seems to have forgotten many the other issues that affect women. I am pretty terfy and proud of it but do you get frustrated as how some women seem to think this is the main issue of the day when, in fact, there are far more significant ones at play.

Datun · 15/10/2025 08:52

Howseitgoin · 15/10/2025 08:50

Again, the principle wasn't & isn't being infringed upon.

Good. Stay out

Shortshriftandlethal · 15/10/2025 08:53

Howseitgoin · 15/10/2025 08:50

Again, the principle wasn't & isn't being infringed upon.

Of course it is. Single sex spaces, services and sporting categories are meant to be exactly that. For members of that sex alone.

They exist to give protection to the essential dignity and privacy of one's sex, and this is especially pertinent for women and girls - due to the basic biological and physical differnces between the sexes which render females more susceptible to male domination and intrusion in certain types of circumstance.

These are all principles which have integrity and which are enshrined in the protected category of 'Sex' in the equality act.

Greyskybluesky · 15/10/2025 08:54

So yet another thread becomes all about Howse. And toilets. Why do TRAs always bring the discussion back to toilets??

What a shame. It started off as an interesting thread. Hands up, I am guilty of getting drawn in.

Shortshriftandlethal · 15/10/2025 08:57

zazazaaar · 15/10/2025 08:51

Its a bit like how we all thought racism was on the decline until fucking Brexit and Farage.
The Internet and porn has made things worse.
I also think the trans debate has derailed feminism and taking it on a path where it seems to have forgotten many the other issues that affect women. I am pretty terfy and proud of it but do you get frustrated as how some women seem to think this is the main issue of the day when, in fact, there are far more significant ones at play.

It is not the only issue, of course, but the fundamental nature of it renders it absolutely central. If you cannot adequately define sex and recognise its characteristics then how can you possible recognise the different ways it impacts upon the sexes and the ways in which it impacts upon the way the two sexes engage with public life?

If you want to afford dignity and protection to women and girls then you need to be clear what a woman or a girl is.

Howseitgoin · 15/10/2025 09:06

Aren't policing loos from 0.5% your whole raison d'être?

Oh, my mistake, I forgot someone grievously 'stole' the word 'woman' effectively extinguishing biological women from the planet….'scary' times…..

Howseitgoin · 15/10/2025 09:12

Datun · 15/10/2025 08:48

I'll never understand how men don't think women care.

It may not be affecting them all because of the small numbers. But they absolutely care.

You only have to stand in line to a mixed sex toilet and listen.

Ah, I see the problem...

Oh the inhumanity of using a mixed toilet! Who needs all those millions of small restaurants, cafes & other barely surviving establishments to stay in business if they can't afford luxury loo accommodations!

There's this thing called 'reality'.

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