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DuesToTheDirt · 2025-05-07T21:15:07+00:00

Prompted by the Dundee uni thread, but also in relation to statements by many other organisations.... Where the fuck were they (excuse my French) when women were shoved to one side to make way for men? Were they apologising to women? Were they issuing statements of support? Were they saying they would do all they could to meet our needs? Bloody hell it makes me angry.

Grammarnut · 08/05/2025 23:09

Waitingfordoggo · 08/05/2025 11:18

@minnienono Since when is a two year-old girl refusing to wear a dress ‘trans’? I’m hoping guessing you don’t have children.

Yes, I had a little girl who didn’t wear dresses and who wanted (and got) a short haircut. I also had a little boy who liked wearing Disney Princess dresses and shoes.

Fast forward 15 years, neither of them are ‘trans’. One of them is gay, the other is straight. They’re just normal young people who were allowed to try on different clothes and roles when they were little, without anyone giving them the idea they were ‘born in the wrong body’.

When I was six virtually all little girls had short hair, either a fringed bob or a Pixie cut (adult women ditto). Boys also had short hair. When I was a teenager I was a rare bird having long hair. Later I was all the fashion, and men also wore long hair - this mostly the mid-70s, though longish hair was fashionable for young men from c. 1968. The 50s, 60s and 70s were sexist and misogynist, but sex stereotypes were battered to pieces by the end of the 70s - that they have come back is very sad.

moto748e · 08/05/2025 23:17

It's worse now, though, isn't it? I'm an old git, and my formative years were in the 70s. Of course it was sexist; 'dolly birds', and all that. But I never thought there was the sheer misogyny we see these days.

TheaBrandt1 · 09/05/2025 07:10

Also disappointed to see the emphasis on superficial differences between the sexes.
we fought hard to do away with this then these “progressive” types bring it back with a vengeance.

StellaAndCrow · 09/05/2025 08:33

minnienono · 08/05/2025 07:29

I’m guessing none of your properly know a genuine trans person, someone who at age 2 refused to put on dresses? F-M in this case obviously. Not all trans people have decided later in life to inconvenience women which seems to be the mantra here, some knew they were different before they had the language skills to explain and 20 years before the current “boom”. We need to be able to offer dignity to everyone, to ensure that natal women are not disadvantaged by this but also that genuine trans people (either direction) are not unduly excluded either. So open or mixed sports would be a good example (triathlon have brought this in), larger settings to have a mix of toilets to suit all, changing rooms likewise remembering that families often need mixed changing too, that where appropriate sex is used a determining factor for services but these are limited to strictly necessary (which in life is not many things let’s face it)

I thought this was a spoof of all the ridiculous things that people have been saying since the ruling!

Like the BBC presenter in the discussion with Mara Yamauchi and Sharron Davies.

Just after Sharon says that the worst thing is everyone saying what about the poor sad men, and can we focus on the women just once, the interviewers FIRST QUESTION is "have you ever met any transwomen? have you asked how they feel?"
https://x.com/nickwallis/status/1920253050767221214

It's so hard to tell what's parody and what's not these days.

https://x.com/nickwallis/status/1920253050767221214

desertgirl · 09/05/2025 08:55

My daughter at around that age spent months insisting she was a cat. And preferred boy clothes and toy cars etc - whereas my son liked fairy dresses and playing with dolls. Oddly enough none of this was a problem, and neither child is either transgender or transspecies…..

DragonRunor · 09/05/2025 09:12

Kinsters · 08/05/2025 11:26

Apparently empathy is revolutionary 🤭🤭 this from a poster who posted about their fantasy conversation with a mute accessory human, sorry, woman where they called the accessory human a stupid fuck and hoped they died for being uppity and not agreeing gender is "bimordal" 😭🤣

I don't get why they're so desperate to feel like everyone hates them.

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Bimordal 😂😂😂

Sdpbody · 09/05/2025 09:26

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 07/05/2025 22:16

Me too. Only men could oppress women for centuries, then throw on a dress and some lippy and instantly become the most oppressed group EVER!

JK, is that you? So well put!

CowboyFromHell · 09/05/2025 10:34

We are sorry if you are struggling with this news...

When I saw pretty much this wording in my work’s EDI statement, my first thought was ‘Struggling? No mate, I’m bloody elated with the Supreme Court ruling’.

And I strongly suspect a lot of my colleagues thought the same, but felt unable to express it. It really is a subject where a very vocal minority are the only ones who feel they can say what they think,

Which makes it hugely difficult to know what the majority of people think, and basically impossible to have a sensible and measured discussion.

Original poster

DuesToTheDirt · 09/05/2025 20:59

@CowboyFromHell I'm elated too!

This isn't actually an issue at my work (private company), but I'm so glad for all of us who are affected, positively, in so many ways by this ruling. And I'm just shocked by all the organisations who are STILL prioritising the hurty feelz of the men, rather than welcoming it as a win for women's rights. (Actually, never mind welcoming the outcome, acknowledging women at all would be a start.)

OP posts:

Grammarnut · 10/05/2025 15:06

DuesToTheDirt · 09/05/2025 20:59

@CowboyFromHell I'm elated too!

This isn't actually an issue at my work (private company), but I'm so glad for all of us who are affected, positively, in so many ways by this ruling. And I'm just shocked by all the organisations who are STILL prioritising the hurty feelz of the men, rather than welcoming it as a win for women's rights. (Actually, never mind welcoming the outcome, acknowledging women at all would be a start.)

They won't acknowledge women because they are all hurt that women have refused to be their support humans.

Unluckyjim · 10/05/2025 20:18

Ffs. I thought someone at work was peaked-they had been-so I moaned about all the people on our internet being up in arms about their destruction and all the kissy kissy stuff to the transwomen. She looked a bit taken aback so I left it. The next day she came to speak to me and told me I was transphobic and need to be careful.

FlakyCritic · 11/05/2025 04:34

minnienono · 08/05/2025 07:29

I’m guessing none of your properly know a genuine trans person, someone who at age 2 refused to put on dresses? F-M in this case obviously. Not all trans people have decided later in life to inconvenience women which seems to be the mantra here, some knew they were different before they had the language skills to explain and 20 years before the current “boom”. We need to be able to offer dignity to everyone, to ensure that natal women are not disadvantaged by this but also that genuine trans people (either direction) are not unduly excluded either. So open or mixed sports would be a good example (triathlon have brought this in), larger settings to have a mix of toilets to suit all, changing rooms likewise remembering that families often need mixed changing too, that where appropriate sex is used a determining factor for services but these are limited to strictly necessary (which in life is not many things let’s face it)

The fact you think a 2 year old has any concept of sex identity, and a 2 year old girl not wanting to wear dresses means they are trans, just proves this trans thing is all about sex stereotypes, @minnienono . You're actually proving our point, you just don't realise it. It's all about shallow, sexist stereotypes.

SarkyMummy · 11/05/2025 08:58

PopstarPoppy · 08/05/2025 12:24

I do know a genuine trans person. Someone who was trans when I met them 30 years ago, before it was trendy. We were close friends. We now don’t communicate, because she insists that any objection to transwomen being in women’s spaces is simply down to bigotry. She makes sure everyone knows all about HER trauma, but it seems biological women aren’t affected by trauma, they just want to be mean, exclusionary TERFs. Nothing to do with genuine fear. It appears empathy is a one-way street.

On to your second point, I am not trans, but as a child refused to wear dresses and had screaming tantrums if required to wear one for an occasion (but was made to wear one anyway, being that it was in the days before small children were given free reign to dictate to their parents). I grew up living in trousers, hating dolls, playing ball games with local boys and climbing trees, which really wasn’t that uncommon. When puberty arrived, I hated my breasts. I really didn’t much like being a girl. I can only imagine what I might have believed about myself if I’d been born this century, but fortunately when I was a child we were just called ‘tomboys’ and it was assumed we would ‘grow out of it’. I never ‘grew out’ of wearing trousers, but I did grow to like my breasts and to be happy as a woman.

One of the strangest things about the recent diversification of gender identities is that many of those pushing the idea are very vocal about not conforming to historical gender stereotypes. Yet examples given for why they identify as they do are often directly related to those stereotypes. You are female but hate wearing dresses, therefore you can’t simply be a girl/woman. You are male, but love wearing makeup, so you can’t be a boy/man. If people really wanted to be gender non-conforming, they would just wear what they liked and partake of activities they liked without feeling the need to label it. I appreciate that there are genuine trans people, but the wider move towards multiple gender labels really just seems to be more and more precise personality pigeonholing, and smacks of attention-seeking. A lot of teenagers are doing it because it is trendy. Medicalising something that is very normal at that age – wanting to be different – is dangerous. Genuine trans people will not ‘grow out’ of it. But most teenagers are not trans, they just have a wide range of different interests and preferences, not all of which align with so-called ‘traditional gender roles’. And that’s ok. We ought to be putting more emphasis on that fact.

ETA: I am all for making sure provision is made for trans people. I just want it to be separate from provision for biological females. I don’t think any women have suggested transpeople shouldn’t be taken into account. It’s the TRA mob that have refused to countenance the idea.

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’One of the strangest things about the recent diversification of gender identities is that many of those pushing the idea are very vocal about not conforming to historical gender stereotypes….’

Absolutely - this. I often wonder why people who embrace this ideology don’t think that what is needed is for rejection of gender stereotypes to become a societal norm (you know, as feminists have fought for, and which has had some traction) rather than feeling the need to create a new set of labels and then bend society into accepting these. But as you say, I think it’s very much about other things - the online context in which this ideology has proliferated and what it rewards, a desire to feel special, the fact that old school feminism is uncool & the preserve of old women (urgh!).

It does my head in though, because it just underlines for me how lacking in intellectual rigour the whole ideology is…

Miq · 11/05/2025 09:14

Our place hasn't put out a statement - we don't make public statements about anything. But internally the woman who does most of the policy has responded to questions to say our policies are already in line with the ruling anyway. And I checked and they are! Not sure exactly when they changed - looks like a few years ago. The old toilet policy created a problem for prayers, so she changed it, apparently in a way that satisfies everyone. We have trans colleagues and they are fine with it. Everyone's happy? It's a modern day miracle.