Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

We are sorry if you are struggling with this news...

89 replies

DuesToTheDirt · 07/05/2025 22:15

Prompted by the Dundee uni thread, but also in relation to statements by many other organisations....

Where the fuck were they (excuse my French) when women were shoved to one side to make way for men? Were they apologising to women? Were they issuing statements of support? Were they saying they would do all they could to meet our needs?

Bloody hell it makes me angry.

OP posts:
lemmein · 08/05/2025 11:47

I’m guessing none of your properly know a genuine trans person, someone who at age 2 refused to put on dresses? F-M in this case ob

@minnienono - sigh, this really is the most backward ideology ever. Even your ‘ftm in this case ob’ is really telling - just a load of sexist bullshit nonsense that has led to swathes of young people being permanently mutiliated.

Little girls aren’t born wearing dresses!

PopstarPoppy · 08/05/2025 12:24

minnienono · 08/05/2025 07:29

I’m guessing none of your properly know a genuine trans person, someone who at age 2 refused to put on dresses? F-M in this case obviously. Not all trans people have decided later in life to inconvenience women which seems to be the mantra here, some knew they were different before they had the language skills to explain and 20 years before the current “boom”. We need to be able to offer dignity to everyone, to ensure that natal women are not disadvantaged by this but also that genuine trans people (either direction) are not unduly excluded either. So open or mixed sports would be a good example (triathlon have brought this in), larger settings to have a mix of toilets to suit all, changing rooms likewise remembering that families often need mixed changing too, that where appropriate sex is used a determining factor for services but these are limited to strictly necessary (which in life is not many things let’s face it)

I do know a genuine trans person. Someone who was trans when I met them 30 years ago, before it was trendy. We were close friends. We now don’t communicate, because she insists that any objection to transwomen being in women’s spaces is simply down to bigotry. She makes sure everyone knows all about HER trauma, but it seems biological women aren’t affected by trauma, they just want to be mean, exclusionary TERFs. Nothing to do with genuine fear. It appears empathy is a one-way street.

On to your second point, I am not trans, but as a child refused to wear dresses and had screaming tantrums if required to wear one for an occasion (but was made to wear one anyway, being that it was in the days before small children were given free reign to dictate to their parents). I grew up living in trousers, hating dolls, playing ball games with local boys and climbing trees, which really wasn’t that uncommon. When puberty arrived, I hated my breasts. I really didn’t much like being a girl. I can only imagine what I might have believed about myself if I’d been born this century, but fortunately when I was a child we were just called ‘tomboys’ and it was assumed we would ‘grow out of it’. I never ‘grew out’ of wearing trousers, but I did grow to like my breasts and to be happy as a woman.

One of the strangest things about the recent diversification of gender identities is that many of those pushing the idea are very vocal about not conforming to historical gender stereotypes. Yet examples given for why they identify as they do are often directly related to those stereotypes. You are female but hate wearing dresses, therefore you can’t simply be a girl/woman. You are male, but love wearing makeup, so you can’t be a boy/man. If people really wanted to be gender non-conforming, they would just wear what they liked and partake of activities they liked without feeling the need to label it. I appreciate that there are genuine trans people, but the wider move towards multiple gender labels really just seems to be more and more precise personality pigeonholing, and smacks of attention-seeking. A lot of teenagers are doing it because it is trendy. Medicalising something that is very normal at that age – wanting to be different – is dangerous. Genuine trans people will not ‘grow out’ of it. But most teenagers are not trans, they just have a wide range of different interests and preferences, not all of which align with so-called ‘traditional gender roles’. And that’s ok. We ought to be putting more emphasis on that fact.

ETA: I am all for making sure provision is made for trans people. I just want it to be separate from provision for biological females. I don’t think any women have suggested transpeople shouldn’t be taken into account. It’s the TRA mob that have refused to countenance the idea.

PopstarPoppy · 08/05/2025 12:33

TheaBrandt1 · 08/05/2025 07:02

Are older women going along with it? Thankfully all my friends and family have revealed themselves as GC which is a relief. We late 40s / early 50s. Even my 16 year old is GC now.

Largely not, thankfully. I think it’s mainly Millennials and Gen Z.

PermanentTemporary · 08/05/2025 12:46

Yes. I'm 56 and it's 2025. Of course I know trans people. I married someone in 1995 who had recently come off cross sex hormones. I've got relatives, friends, friends' children and friends' spouses who have come out as trans and as nonbinary. I've worked in a specialist service for trans people. I know a professional who worked at GIDS. Im currently scribbling furious comments all over reading Judith Butler's Who's Afraid of Gender. Am I allowed to have an opinion now?

My employer, which I have always thought was quite sensible, has produced a crappy statement signposting us to Wellbeing Support. Because the law as written doesn't suit everybody. FGS.

AndrogynousElf · 08/05/2025 12:48

I can’t bear it. If sex is a spectrum, then how are babies made?

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 08/05/2025 12:51

PopstarPoppy · 07/05/2025 23:01

In my experience, the people chanting “be kind” are usually being unkind to the person they are speaking to! What it generally means is “disregard your feelings for those of others” and is almost only ever expected of women. When did you last hear men being told to “be kind”?

I can assure you that fathers of trans people are told to be kind, with rarely any understanding or concern about our feelings and ethical dilemmas. However, I agree that women bear the brunt of, as so often.

Skyellaskerry · 08/05/2025 13:10

Bearsinmotion · 08/05/2025 10:39

Yeah, my public sector organisation is going down this route. There was a question in our staff talk about the ruling and the response was that we want to stay inclusive and are not making any policy changes yet. Nothing at all to indicate anyone in the organisation would see the ruling as positive, and no mention of women. Very much gave the impression the organisation is looking for ways to not follow the guidance.

Any idea whether the health and safety department or lead had to say about it, seeing as the 1992 health and safety at work regs prescribe separate facilities for men and women, and there’s ruling made clear what man and woman means. So not complying with the ruling I believe would breach health and safety law.

Bearsinmotion · 08/05/2025 13:21

If health and safety had been consulted they certainly didn't contribute to the discussion.

Skyellaskerry · 08/05/2025 13:33

@Bearsinmotion hopefully health and safety professionals will be able to lean on this ruling in any disagreements with DEI. You would hope anyway!

Christinapple · 08/05/2025 13:45

PopstarPoppy · 07/05/2025 22:45

And the worst part of all of this is the number of WOMEN saying how awful it is and ‘speaking up’ about their support of TW. What about other women???

What is this post supposed to mean? "How dare women exist who aren't gender critical"?

PoppySeedBagelRedux · 08/05/2025 13:55

Christinapple · 08/05/2025 13:45

What is this post supposed to mean? "How dare women exist who aren't gender critical"?

No Christinapple, that’s ridiculous. We just don’t understand how some women pander to men like this, and don’t see the negative impact on many other women and on children. Don’t be so dramatic.

Kucinghitam · 08/05/2025 13:55

Chris's abysmal reading comprehension and/or astounding ability to create hyperbolic non sequiturs is unabated, I see.

stubbornhabits · 08/05/2025 13:55

My university employer is another one that has put out a statement about support for trans people. Nothing about women (they daren't even say that word). No haste to make any changes to comply with the law.

The EDI stuff seems to make the right noises about inclusivity for everyone but in reality all they seem to talk about is trans rights.

I am angry.

Namechangechanged · 08/05/2025 14:21

Hear hear. Thin veneer of “We’re so inclusive” hides layer upon layer of misogyny.

It disgusts me but we see you, misogynist apologists, and your response to the SC ruling (which is plain, simple biological reality).

Namechangechanged · 08/05/2025 14:30

lemmein · 08/05/2025 11:47

I’m guessing none of your properly know a genuine trans person, someone who at age 2 refused to put on dresses? F-M in this case ob

@minnienono - sigh, this really is the most backward ideology ever. Even your ‘ftm in this case ob’ is really telling - just a load of sexist bullshit nonsense that has led to swathes of young people being permanently mutiliated.

Little girls aren’t born wearing dresses!

It’s not uncommon for a two year old to refuse all items of clothing. The poster who wrote this can’t have children because otherwise s/he would know that parents of two year olds feel that they’re definitely winning at life if they can wrangle their child into any clothes whatsoever sometimes.

outofdate · 08/05/2025 15:06

When the enforcement actions start to bite it’ll be interesting to count the reverse ferrets.

PopstarPoppy · 08/05/2025 15:10

Christinapple · 08/05/2025 13:45

What is this post supposed to mean? "How dare women exist who aren't gender critical"?

I don’t mean that at all. What I object to is the fact that, in saying how awful the ruling is, women are dismissing the very valid concerns of other women. They’re not pushing for provision to be made for TW, they’re pushing for provision to be taken away from other women.

Most GC women don’t doubt that TW can feel threatened by cis men, and don’t object to the idea that TW need provisions to be made as a result, they just think it should be separate from that provided to biological females.

The women objecting to the SC ruling, though, generally treat the women who have concerns about sharing their spaces with biological males as if they are just bigots who are trying to be unkind or exclusive. They recognise the fears and trauma of TW but not the equally genuine fears and trauma of biological women. Both are valid, and empathy should be a two-way street.

Judellie · 08/05/2025 15:56

Thank God my employer never went along with this crap and we still have single sex toilets.

Cailleach1 · 08/05/2025 16:13

When little, my lad used to have ‘Spider-Man everything’. Everything. Underpants; overpants; vests; long sleeved tops; jammies, t shirts; coat; hoodies; gloves; shoes; wellies; socks; bedding, towels, stationery; facemask; hat; buckets and spades; curtains; and bags. Etc. etc.

Was he Spider-Man identity, or something? He would dress up in even more Spider-Man at hallowe’en. Bigger web!

How truly ridiculous to say that it is highly significant of something else (like their very sex) if a child likes, or doesn’t like, certain articles or clothing. My son certainly wouldn’t have eschewed a dress with Spider-Man on it. Anything with Spider-Man on it was coveted. Unlike buttons. He didn’t like clothes with buttons. Zips were ok.

Oh, and he completely grew out of his interest in Spider-Man. Along with his Lego obsession. He outgrew his dislike of buttons too. He wears many a piece of clothing with buttons. We just left him alone to plough his own furrow, and didn’t interfere with his development.

genandtonic · 08/05/2025 19:07

Thank goodness the doctor didn’t give him 2 extra legs and 2 extra arms made out of other bits if his skin.

AstonScrapingsNameChange · 08/05/2025 20:48

AndrogynousElf · 08/05/2025 12:48

I can’t bear it. If sex is a spectrum, then how are babies made?

It's like they think it's random chance, or something.

With all these hundreds of different sexes flying about, what are the chances of meeting someone who has the right bits to breed with?

How do they think animal breeders manage it?

It's like they've all forgotten the point of sex is reproduction.

TeaPleaseTa · 08/05/2025 22:22

Yep, the CEO of Mind charity has issued a similar one-sided pity fest on behalf of trans colleagues, with no inkling of how any of this has affected women.

LadyBracknellsHandbagg · 08/05/2025 22:41

minnienono · 08/05/2025 07:29

I’m guessing none of your properly know a genuine trans person, someone who at age 2 refused to put on dresses? F-M in this case obviously. Not all trans people have decided later in life to inconvenience women which seems to be the mantra here, some knew they were different before they had the language skills to explain and 20 years before the current “boom”. We need to be able to offer dignity to everyone, to ensure that natal women are not disadvantaged by this but also that genuine trans people (either direction) are not unduly excluded either. So open or mixed sports would be a good example (triathlon have brought this in), larger settings to have a mix of toilets to suit all, changing rooms likewise remembering that families often need mixed changing too, that where appropriate sex is used a determining factor for services but these are limited to strictly necessary (which in life is not many things let’s face it)

‘I’m guessing none of your properly know a genuine trans person, someone who at age 2 refused to put on dresses? F-M in this case obviously.’ And neither have you because the only way children of 2 consider themselves trans is by parental coercion, 2 year olds generally don’t know their arse from their elbow.

Putting on a dress makes you a woman does it, that’s your definition? 🤦‍♀️ What an abject load of regressive, misogynistic nonsense that statement is.

Grammarnut · 08/05/2025 22:41

minnienono · 08/05/2025 07:29

I’m guessing none of your properly know a genuine trans person, someone who at age 2 refused to put on dresses? F-M in this case obviously. Not all trans people have decided later in life to inconvenience women which seems to be the mantra here, some knew they were different before they had the language skills to explain and 20 years before the current “boom”. We need to be able to offer dignity to everyone, to ensure that natal women are not disadvantaged by this but also that genuine trans people (either direction) are not unduly excluded either. So open or mixed sports would be a good example (triathlon have brought this in), larger settings to have a mix of toilets to suit all, changing rooms likewise remembering that families often need mixed changing too, that where appropriate sex is used a determining factor for services but these are limited to strictly necessary (which in life is not many things let’s face it)

In life, for women, there are many, many places where sex must determine who is allowed into a space. Refuges for rape and domestic violence victims, prisons, sports, changing rooms, lavatories, sleeping areas, women only swimming pools...if it is designated for women then it is biological women and all those areas and more are needed to be so designated.
I don't believe in being in the wrong body, we are our bodies. Someone with gender dysphoria needs mental health help, not opposite sex hormones and unnecessary (and dangerous) cosmetic surgery.
And not wanting to wear dresses at age two does not make that child a boy. Girls in many societies wear trousers, and the boys wear what look like dresses/skirts to Westerners. Sex stereotyping like this is regressive and sexist. People can wear what they want - it doesn't mean they are not the sex they obviously are.

LadyBracknellsHandbagg · 08/05/2025 22:50

Christinapple · 08/05/2025 13:45

What is this post supposed to mean? "How dare women exist who aren't gender critical"?

Who rattled your cage? 😂

Swipe left for the next trending thread