More hyperbole from the MEN on trans rights and HRT

[CervixSampler]

It’s not HRT ffs. Nobody is denying your existence and what do you think actual women do when they can’t get HRT?

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/uk-news/we-just-want-exist-loved-31271547

'Once you’re on HRT, you need it for life or you could be at risk of side effects such as osteoporosis and cardiac conditions.'

Whit?!

Medical need for life? Men don't need HRT. He can still dress up however he wants, call himself what he wants and live his woman parody lifestyle but he has absolutely no medical need for HRT.

I've archived that horseshit.

https://archive.ph/zGj0u

Are there health risks from stopping? If there are then the NHS should not have signed up with these clown clinics who prescribe this stuff like sweeties and then panic and slam down the trap door when they realise the legal claims might come rolling in. Whatever you think of these men this is medical negligence and a scandal. Remember the evidence shows more and more the high incidence of autism amongst male transsexuals in particular (have recently been listening to Dr Az Hakeem). I would love to see these Stonewall/Tavistock ideologically addled fools who are STILL unable to sit down, read the SC judgment, the Cass Review and THINK about where all this has gone for some quite vulnerable people without squealing transphobia and accept some responsibility.

I liked the bit about them objecting to pathologising being trans.

Well let’s think about what would change that we hear so much about.

They would lose their soft skin, that womenly smell they tell us they have, apparently their dicks would taste manly again. I mean, there has been so much about these impacts of estrogen going around that we know what they are.

The fact they call it replacement is just another word grab.

People taking opposite sex hormones are giving themselves an endochrine imbalance.

The normal job of endochronologist is to fix hormone imbalances, not give people them.

This article is, perversely, portraying getting opposite sex hormones as ‘healthy’ and reverting to your natural hormones as ‘unhealthy’.

The MEN is a terrible excuse for journalism at the best of times and it’s in recent months been flooded with adverts making it almost as unreadable as its articles. It is an embarrassment.

And don’t forget that they would not have periods anymore either.

If they have had orchiectomy, it may be that they need some kind of hormones to keep them healthy, though it is unclear whether either of those patients are in that position.

I think it is very poor if they genuinely were given treatment and later it was withdrawn so they could not get it, but again that it’s unclear whether that is the case or not. It sounds like it has become more inconvenient for them, which is frustrating, if so, but hardly the end of the world.

If I was having long term treatment for something which my GP initially supplied, but then later found they couldn’t for some reason, it’s not that big a deal to have to go to the specialist each time. I’d like to bet they were not actually left without the hormones at any point. Usually some kind of bridging period would be extended.

I think this is an unfortunate side effect of the realisation that transitioning as a treatment is based on very poor to no evidence. Eventually the NHS might stop offering it altogether for new patients, but will presumably be obliged to continue to support those who have already started, either by giving psychiatric help, and/or continuing treatment of some kind for those whose treatment is now irreversible.

The whole debacle has put doctors in an impossible situation. If you have looked at the evidence and no longer believe it’s an appropriate treatment, then to continue is to open yourself up to a negligence claim. Even without that risk, if you have sworn to do no harm, then giving out cross sex hormones clearly does harm, so you cannot continue without breaking your oath.

I hope the situation is worked out soon. For all that I have very little sympathy for grown men who decided they want to be women, I don’t think it’s a good situation to tell someone they can have something and that it’s a viable treatment on the NHS, then withdraw it.

The medics who have pushed the political aims of the trans lobby instead of following the evidence are much more blameworthy than any patient or GP caught up in this.

If/when testes/ovaries are removed (orchiectomy/oophorectomy), hormone treatment is needed for basic health requirements, which isn’t the case for those who take hormone treatment and retain their gonads.

Of course if testes have been removed those patients require exogenous hormones to replace what their body can no longer produce.

However, those patients are not replacing their hormones with the correct levels for their body. They are instead taking estrogen which is not being ‘replaced’ in the quantity their body would be producing.

I can understand those GPs who are being asked to issue prescriptions they have concerns about issuing because of long term negative side effects not wishing to take on that responsibility. And why should they just issue prescriptions because someone else did previously if they don’t feel they want to take on the risk.

Seems so! I would like to have seen a comment/some research/a bit of basic journalism into Becky’s comment about the fact stopping WOULD cause health problems. I.e. “we spoke to an endocrinologist and they told us…” would have done. At the moment it is unchallenged so to the unsuspecting mind, presented as fact. We all know that there is a high incidence of tripe being presented as fact in this arena but we equally know this is an arena where there is an entire lack of medical scrutiny/follow up on outcomes so who knows?

The journalist is trans identifying. (Female, with they/them pronouns). Shocker.

The amount of hassle that locally women have had to get HRT from the GP without jumping through exercise more/anti depressants/get a hobby if you have an empty nest. Surely Transwomen welcome the opportunity to live 'authentically'

Yes. If being trans isn’t about a medical condition, then why does it require prescriptions and healthcare?

The lack of logic is a feature, not a bug. Similarly (assuming these men have intact testicles) stopping taking oestrogen isn’t going to kill them. Menopause isn’t enjoyable, and you might think these men could find value going through a version of that experience, but most don’t die of it.

That does explain the lack of journalistic integrity, @ArabellaScott though, to be fair, many journalists report poorly on many things related to science.

One wonders about all those historical trans people we hear such a lot about, and ones from different cultures. How did/do they manage without massive doses of cross-sex hormones?

And yes, maybe these men should embrace their “menopause”, as my friend was advised to do (by her female GP, moreover).

I can't get my preferred HRT (Estradot estrogen patches) because they are out of stock everywhere, NHS and privately. There is an acute shortage and I am getting desperate. I am allergic to the glue on the other patches and have an appointment to discuss other options with my GP next week.

It's really galling to think that I - a WOMAN with a medical need for this stuff as I have had a hysterectomy and was suicidal without it - is competing with a man who wants patches in the hope he grows breasts. FFS.

I feel sorry for people suddenly unable to access drugs which have kept them in a physical condition they are happy with. It doesn't really say if they simply can't get oestrogen or if it's just more complicated. I completely understand why GPs are refusing to issue repeat prescriptions for drugs where there is plenty of evidence they cause damage with long term use. I'm also angry that we have been paying through the NHS to essentially make people's bodies less well. It is such a mess.

Comparing it to insulin is hyperbole of the highest order.

I think the shared care model isn’t robust for others either, for example ADHD medication prescribed by specialists for children. I have far more sympathy for those people.

'Once you’re on HRT, you need it for life or you could be at risk of side effects such as osteoporosis and cardiac conditions.'

I'm not aware of any evidence of dangers of discontinuing treatment. Anyone seen any?

There's quite a lot of evidence of harm from being on the treatment, so I believe we've always assumed coming off it would be generally beneficial.

Now, if there was evidence of withdrawal harm, we'd be adding it to the pile of reasons not to start people on this pathway.