Statement from the Society of Radiographers re Mammograms

[Mollyollydolly]

The Society of Radiographers have issued the following statement after the news story this week.
Women are already self excluding because of the coverage, women will probably die.
They have fucked up massively.
I have no words for the damage they've done.
I'd really love to know which individual proposed it in the name of diversity and inclusion.
So angry about it.
And to all the women on here who were posting they didn't care who did it, this is the result. Women self excluding.

"Recent media coverage about the role of men in mammography has caused concern for people and we want to provide reassurance and set the record straight.
The coverage followed a motion passed at the Society of Radiographers’ Annual Delegates Conference (ADC). ADC provides members with the opportunity to help shape the strategic direction of the Society. Each region and country propose motions for debate, which are voted on by delegates at the conference.
The motion in question asked the Society to explore how we could support fair access to mammography as a career, as mammography in breast screening is currently restricted to female staff.
It does not change NHS policy, and it does not mean that only male mammographers will be employed.
We understand that this coverage has led to distress and confusion, with some contacting screening services or cancelling appointments, concerned that they will be having a man perform their mammogram. We are deeply sorry for the concern this has caused and are working to provide clear and accurate information.
No changes have been made to who carries out breast screening by this motion. The breast screening experience remains:

• A specialist called a mammographer will take breast screening mammograms.
• The mammographer will be female.
• They will explain what will happen at each stage, and you can ask any questions you may have.
• Radiographers and mammographers in NHS services continue to ensure that patient care is delivered safely, sensitively, and with respect for personal, cultural, and religious needs.

Breast screening is a vital part of early cancer detection and saves lives every year. We recognise how important it is that women feel safe, respected and informed when accessing these services. Protecting trust in the screening programme is essential, and we are working with our NHS colleagues to support this. The motion passed at ADC will now go to the Society’s UK Council to decide whether any further work should be done. If it is taken forward, this will involve detailed discussions with NHS bodies, patient groups and service providers. While the Society can advocate for change on behalf of members, it does not have the authority to change NHS policy. Our intention is to support a professional, inclusive workforce while always protecting the rights and dignity of patients. Mammography screening services will continue to prioritise compassionate, people-centred care. Further updates will be shared when appropriate." https://www.sor.org/news/mammography/public-statement-mammography

Yes, I can see now that there is a sub plot and intention.......that may well have escalated since the supreme court ruling, or maybe even in direct response to it.

because we clearly have a problem - if we don't recruit more staff the wait will be longer.

since so many women don't mind, the queues for everyone will be shorter than if they recruit nobody or try to recruit only women.

Our health is ALREADY at risk due to delays of having no staff. Instead of knee-jerking your way through life, employ a little critical thinking.

As i outlined: NOBODY will be forced to go to a man. Tbh i don't want to go to a man either, if i thought i had something wrong with me, that may change. But regular screenings? nope, i want a woman.

You know, this is a very interesting notion.
Has a male already been employed somewhere? Or, have they been enrolled on a training course?
This could explain the press announcement and lovely videos of cool girls saying they don't mind after the supreme court ruling came into force.

Tell me you've never had a mammogram without telling me you've never had a mammogram.

A breast cancer surgeon is a very different level of professional than a mammographer working for the screening service. There is really no comparison.

The suggestion upthread is that yes, it is probably the case that trans-identifying men have been employed, but due to the internal trans-related NHS policies, staff were told that it would be illegal for them to tell patients that their mammographer was a TiM. The SC ruling now means that the NHS can no longer lie about the sex of a mammographer, and therefore has to think fast about how to continue to employ these men.

This doesn't work in terms of consent and trust though. Sorry.

If the default is female you don't get situations where a woman is off sick, so a male fills in at the last minute and women are put on the spot in terms of having to make a decision with the alternative having to go back to the bottom of the waiting list.

This puts women under undue pressure to consent when they don't want to and undermines trust in the system.

Unfortunately I simply do not believe it won't happen and that makes me less likely to engage fully stop.

The timing doesn't help. I now totally believe they have a member (members) of staff who have been breeching women's rights as a result. I think they are more bothered about those employees than the women they are supposed to serve. They are throwing women under the bus with an emotional blackmail on consent saying more women will be seen quicker.

IT IS BULLSHIT.

My bullshit detector has gone off. They don't care about me. I don't trust them.

I am not going to be manipulated by this coercive crap about the cool girls.

https://www.sor.org/news/ezine/male-mammographer-motion-sparks-fierce-debate-at-t

https://www.sor.org/news/trade-union-ir/radiographers-call-for-breast-screening-to-be-carr

Both articles from 2017

This has been ongoing for at least 5 years so unsure that recent SC judgment is necessarily what's prompted it

Perhaps all the bloke hcp’s who are so very interested in womens health care could be directed towards more menopause training? More research, deeper understanding of early symptoms, and pushing for better and more availability of treatments in a field of medicine that’s desperately needed and sadly misunderstood or ignored.

Not as interesting as a career development opportunity for those who want a hands on experience though.

because we clearly have a problem - if we don't recruit more staff the wait will be longer

It’s a screening programme for healthy women, not for those already diagnosed. There is no “wait” as such, there are no “queues”. Staffing has been a problem for years, but it’s not clear why this is. Many staffing problems in the NHS are the direct result of insufficient funding.

Employing men as mammographers is likely to deter women from attending screening, and will inevitably increase costs, as chaperones would be required. How is this a sensible solution?

Also, the SoR statement makes clear, it’s largely driven to improve career opportunities for men.

We need more staff - cos we are going to have to move the male staff we've been employing illegally and it's all your fault if you don't enable us to continue employing them

Fuck off.

I started to type a response to @Brefugee but saw you’d already posted @borntobequiet and said what I was going to say.

Most mammograms are done as screening appointments. If the NHS could promise absolutely 100% of the time that every woman in every single screening unit up and down the UK day in, day out would have the option to refuse a male, and that any woman who refuses a male mammographer would be seen as quickly as the women who were happy having a male carrying out the mammograms and the female mammographer waiting room wouldn’t be crowded in comparison to the male mammographer waiting room, or that they wouldn’t have to go to another unit elsewhere because the one in the local supermarket car park only has a male mammographer working out of it on certain days, and that system would never, ever break down then perhaps it might be acceptable.

Chances of that happening in reality? Zero.

If a woman has to see a gynaecologist the chances are you’ll be seeing a man who then puts his hand up your floof and has a good feel around. Surely that’s more intimate than a mammogram? If you’re a man who finds a testicular lump you’ll be sent for an ultrasound which involves the sonographer moving your dick around to get it out of the way and then she/he fiddles around with your balls. That’s fairly intimate isn’t it? I cannot fathom what all the fuss is about.

I used to work in apprenticeships, and have seen how well structured and well implemented apprenticeships can benefit women, especially in their thirties and forties. There is already a Level 4 Apprenticeship in Mammography, but I think - I might be wrong - that it’s only open to those already working in the screening service. The only qualifications stipulated are Level 2 (GCSE or Functional Skills) passes in English and Maths.

One solution would be to open this route to any woman with appropriate qualifications and experience and devise flexible and family friendly working patterns to attract applicants.

How many mammograms have you had @BeRoseSloth ?

And no, the ‘chances are’ you’ll see a female gynaecologist.

Many posters who have had both have said the opposite, that the mammogram is more uncomfortable and intrusive. Of course, women’s experiences vary.

Two system staffing for a very specific type screening

Q1

With a man or a woman
[ so the woman has to be ok alone in a room half naked with a man manhandling her breasts when the man picked this as his career path ]

So a shorter wait will happen
some women self exclude from the screening by notice so women who have not been notified get an early invitation.
But on the day rejection of the man in screening services is costly.

So the provider has a choice
to offer 2 Q options
• Women only staff or
• Mixed sex staff.
so the mixed staff Q is shorter by default
OR
blame the woman for abusing the screening system and man providing the screening and remove the womans ability to access the screening service
so more screening appointments are available

V

Q2
With a woman only provision

Where every woman who would go to screening is in a First in first out Q

An important thing to note is that if the NHS said some men it is saying that from that point on 50% or more of the staff it hires will be men.

What happens if they have employed males illegally at this point?

Can they fire them? Probably not because of employment law? Can they make their position redundant? Possibly not because the position is still open. If they try to move them, can the staff refuse?

It strikes me there may be all kinds of legal implication here. And wanna bet whose side the unions will take.

If it blows up to a legal battle then the public will find out and they may be exposed to legal liabilities.

And it will massively damage public trust in the service.

So they've tried this shit on instead.

NO.

I am CONVINCED they will pass the motion to allow men to work as mammographers as a result. Purely because it gets them out of a hole.

Why would a career path which is
• day shift and
• by appointment only
which is not attractive to women be attractive to men ?

Can you give me some reason why that would happen at
• application and training level
• hire level
• staff retention level

Just had a look at SoR on Facebook - absolute guff from the male Freddie Cooper and it seems the motion was put forward by a woman in NHS Leeds whose views on other women not stepping aside for males are clear

I am CONVINCED they will pass the motion to allow men to work as mammographers as a result. Purely because it gets them out of a hole.

And which is why we need to make an almighty fuss about it to prevent them doing so. I’ve already used their contact form and contacted my MP. Next, I’ll contact the DHSC directly.

But why is it a women's service run only by women? Gynaecology isn't. Midwifery isn't. Obstetrics isn't.
Why do we need a service run only by women for breasts?
It doesn't make any sense. Surely the only thing necessary is to provide the option of a female mammographer.

Try reading this thread, and this one:

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5324667-allow-male-workers-to-perform-mammograms-and-breast-screening?page=1

The motion has already been passed, the question now is will it be moved forward into a discussion involving the NHS? And if so will any decisions be open to input from service users before implementation?
If there are already males with GRCs working (illegally) in the screening service then what are their employers going to do about it?

Can opened. Worms everywhere

I suspect that might be because they wanted to include trans men as radiographers, though, as the Radiography article from 2023 (linked upthread) complains that trans men have to be fired if they transition as they’re no longer ‘female’.