Statement from the Society of Radiographers re Mammograms

[Mollyollydolly]

The Society of Radiographers have issued the following statement after the news story this week.
Women are already self excluding because of the coverage, women will probably die.
They have fucked up massively.
I have no words for the damage they've done.
I'd really love to know which individual proposed it in the name of diversity and inclusion.
So angry about it.
And to all the women on here who were posting they didn't care who did it, this is the result. Women self excluding.

"Recent media coverage about the role of men in mammography has caused concern for people and we want to provide reassurance and set the record straight.
The coverage followed a motion passed at the Society of Radiographers’ Annual Delegates Conference (ADC). ADC provides members with the opportunity to help shape the strategic direction of the Society. Each region and country propose motions for debate, which are voted on by delegates at the conference.
The motion in question asked the Society to explore how we could support fair access to mammography as a career, as mammography in breast screening is currently restricted to female staff.
It does not change NHS policy, and it does not mean that only male mammographers will be employed.
We understand that this coverage has led to distress and confusion, with some contacting screening services or cancelling appointments, concerned that they will be having a man perform their mammogram. We are deeply sorry for the concern this has caused and are working to provide clear and accurate information.
No changes have been made to who carries out breast screening by this motion. The breast screening experience remains:

• A specialist called a mammographer will take breast screening mammograms.
• The mammographer will be female.
• They will explain what will happen at each stage, and you can ask any questions you may have.
• Radiographers and mammographers in NHS services continue to ensure that patient care is delivered safely, sensitively, and with respect for personal, cultural, and religious needs.

Breast screening is a vital part of early cancer detection and saves lives every year. We recognise how important it is that women feel safe, respected and informed when accessing these services. Protecting trust in the screening programme is essential, and we are working with our NHS colleagues to support this. The motion passed at ADC will now go to the Society’s UK Council to decide whether any further work should be done. If it is taken forward, this will involve detailed discussions with NHS bodies, patient groups and service providers. While the Society can advocate for change on behalf of members, it does not have the authority to change NHS policy. Our intention is to support a professional, inclusive workforce while always protecting the rights and dignity of patients. Mammography screening services will continue to prioritise compassionate, people-centred care. Further updates will be shared when appropriate." https://www.sor.org/news/mammography/public-statement-mammography

Then they should immediately offer to rebook an appointment when a woman radiographs is available.

And for women in low-paid precarious jobs where leave for medical appointments is unpaid, she has to book another day off work, using her precious annual leave or taking a day unpaid, to attend the rebooked appointment where she may be faced with another male mammographer because the woman has called in sick. She has to pay for transport again. If she is a carer, she has to find respite cover again.

Rebooking an appointment is not a zero-cost outcome for the poorest women.

That incident highlights a second issue.

The woman asked staff member A for a woman to carry out the procedure and staff member A contacted staff member B a male.

Both have had professional training and should be aware that assault in this case also sexual assault charges can arise from lack of consent.

However the NHS position would be that staff member A had not breached the womans right to expect a female and has not committed an assault by putting the woman in fear of being sexually assaulted.

The woman being confronted by the male who is not retreating but trying to justify why he can act without consent would not expect that she would be supported by other staff as two member of staff "conspired" to place her in the situation. Its the breach of trust which is the problem.

The public health system has many problems but the basic trust is that it is organised in the best interest of the user not the staff and telling lies when someone asks for same sex healthcare (even if they dont get it) is a fundamental breach of that trust.

Most people, when told that they have the big C, will endure significant discomfort to be treated, including seeing male surgeons.

A woman attending screening probably doesn't have the big C and is going to want a much higher comfort level to consider attending an appointment that will probably confirm that she is healthy.

At all times it should be based on the best person for the job.

At the point of invasive investigations/surgery they can be male/female whoever for the vast majority of people. But there still has to be some choice and discussion of risk/delay about the implications of that choice.

At the point of screening I can say that it should be based e about removing as many barriers as possible. Hence supermarket locations etc. That means female mammographers. No question. No ifs or buts. And with screening rates of min 93% it’s working well so let’s not break it please

Exactly. This push for male mammographers loses sight of the service users and the point of the service. Screening involves trying to get an asymptomatic population to come in and undergo a test, which for most individuals will give a negative result eg no further need for test or treatment. So you need to inform and convince people in your target group of the importance of the test, and remove as many barriers as possible to make it as easy to attend, pain free and user friendly as possible. Mammography is already at a disadvantage as the test requires partial nudity physical manipulation and discomfort and pain during positioning of sensitive organs, all with a professional who is likely to be a relative stranger and not someone you will have met before or had a chance to build up a rapport with - it feels very vulnerable. It also requires you to take time out of your life for something that may be of little immediate personal benefit to you - so you take time off work or use annual leave, find childcare, care for elderly relatives, pay for travel to and from screening, juggle it around other appointments. These are costs to attending screeing, they may sound trivial but they are all potential barriers to engaging with the service.
So - making the literature easy to read, accessible, making appointments easy to make (and alter), flexibility in screening locations to reduce travel issues (eg mobile clinics) and above all making the environment as comfortable supportive and reassuring as possible for a woman when she does attend. And this clearly includes female only staff.

Women who have symptoms/concerns about cancer or are already in treatment are not the target audience. Many of them, under treatment, surgery/chemo/radiotherapy will make different choices. For some, female care is an absolute, others dont have a preference. For others, they are happy to accept mixed sex teams, because they are under treatment. theres an urgency, a personal impact to the treatment, and importantly its as part of a team of staff, not lone person interaction.

Many women will insist on a female mammographer, and a female mammographer will be acceptable to those without preferences. Are there lots of women, users of the service, demanding that they have a male mammographer or a choice of one? I dont think so - this call isn't coming from service users.

Fabulous username btw SFOOH 😂

Mammography is already at a disadvantage as the test requires partial nudity physical manipulation and discomfort and pain during positioning of sensitive organs, all with a professional who is likely to be a relative stranger and not someone you will have met before or had a chance to build up a rapport with - it feels very vulnerable

Excellent post by @Motheringlikeapelican.
I’m of the age to have mammograms and unlike some others, I don’t find it an especially uncomfortable or painful process, but I completely understand that it is for many. It IS a weird experience that leaves you feeling very vulnerable and exposed, literally and metaphorically. And it really, really helps that the first thing you see as you go up the steps to that little mobile unit in the car-park is the sign saying NO MEN ALLOWED.
You know that you’ll be among women, and only women - who share your experiences, your fears and your feelings. They will be understanding. They get it. That whole aura, of an all-female environment where you genuinely ‘feel safe’ (in its real sense rather than its current parroted jargon sense) is so vitally important.

Introduce male radiographers and that whole scenario changes in an instant. Like any all-female group where a man enters and at once the dynamic is utterly altered. Just read any of the dozens of threads on here where that’s happened - not even in a malign way; it just changes everything. And the fact that this is being proposed because the men want it for career development, rather than to benefit the women the scheme is run for? Just no.

This.

Consider the discrimination just for a moment and the criteria on which it will be made.

100% of appointments will be accessible and available to women who are privileged enough to be able to enable men's career and other desires to do this work.

A lesser percentage (sinking in direct proportion to the number of men it benefits) will be accessible and available to women unable to enable men in their seeking of medical care.

Discrimination on the basis of male enablement. In women's health care.

🙂 It's lifted from someone else's comment on FWR.

Absolutely agree. The now-deleted thread on the SoR Facebook page had posts from male radiographers who (with a couple of exceptions) just did not get this. They were very much of the opinion that it was simply a case of putting on extra clinics where men could work (ha! Like the NHS would put additional resources into this 🙄) and that other procedures were more invasive so women had nothing to worry about - plus the usual ‘well men have female radiographers carrying out their procedures’. The male grasp of this issue is very loose.

‘well men have female radiographers carrying out their procedures’.

When men are subjected to "TUBEs" or fear that they will suddenly feel a boner pressed into their arses from the woman stood behind them putting their tits into the machine, they can have a say on this. Until then, they can butt out.

Male respect for women is ridiculously low, and the current culture of ignoring women's voices is downright fashionable.

(They'll attentively listen to hours of whingeing from men about feelings however. And worry themselves in circles about 'respecting' them.)

The subconscious misogyny is just everywhere at the moment, it's foul.

The inclusion of males is likely to be detrimental to the service and its users: Reduced numbers of women choosing to attend, the practical and cost problems due to a need for chaperones & extra admin. Risks of under utilization of the male staff or cancellations as they are not accepted by service users, and the potential for a bottleneck with increased pressure on female staff as more women demand to be on their lists, delays in screening due to this over-subscription, not to mention the loss of flexibility/cross cover for the service. Risk of women feeling pressured into accepting male staff when they are not comfortable, having a bad experience and the knock on effects of this in their lives (eg not engaging with mammography or other screening services in future, distrust of NHS/medical professions) - its hard to quantify the psychological but as a medic or PAMs professional its part of your duty to be aware of the gravity of any patient interaction and the potential consequences of a hasty or ill thought word or traumatic interaction can be huge for the patient.

You have probably guessed I work in health services, though nothing to do with mammography and no longer NHS- and sometimes have to deal with situations of men or women asking for single sex care. I have never had a female member of staff offended by this request: they understand and center the patients request/experience without taking it personally: but the amount of male juniors I have had who get a bit stroppy and unable to step back/see the patient perspective - and you have to really push them to get them take the personal out of it, and see it from the patients point of view and follow the logic of acceding to patient requests.

I am not a radiographer, but I am a keen student of human nature, and NHS costs would go up due to missed appointments. Here is how it would go once this hare-brained idea was in place.

Women across the county would read their letter, and read that male mammographers were emoloyed, but that they could opt for a female staff member to do their mammogram.
Obviously lots of women would promptly opt for the female. They can be Group 1.

Simultaneously, multiple women: so, if you say you're okay with a man, my sister/cousin/best friend's personal trainer said you get seen faster and have a better choice of appointment times, but they don't even employ any men round here. She had a mammogram last year so she knows. We'll call them Group 2.

If you doubt me on this, read through the terrible advice people give each other on how to secure school places at sought-after secondary schools.

Another set of women would read the letter and think, "I'd prefer a woman, but I should leave the female employee for the women who really need a female. Besides, I'll be seen faster and have a better choice of appointment times. Besides, I'm overdue for my mammogram, so it's for the best". That's Group 3.

Another group of women would read the letter, picture a really kind professional male HCP and confidently conclude that they would be fine with a male doing the procedure. That's Group 4.

Personally, I can certainly say there are male HCPs I would trust to do a mammography, if they were trained to do so, but due to their inherent decency, none of those men would ever pick mammography as a speciality. What kind of man would pick it? Is it a man I would be comfortable with alone in a portakabin, while partially undressed? Is it a man other women would feel safe with while alone?

Now what happens when women from Group 2, Group 3 and Group 4 discover that they have been allocated to a male mammographer, and moreover, he looks a bit creepier than they imagined?

We'll have a big increase in non-attendance, and of the women who do attend, a startling amount won't go through with having the mammogram.

Just have the profession as female-only. Please.

That's really interesting that female staff are more understanding of requests for same sex clinicians but male staff take it personally.

Due to their inherent decency, none of those men would ever pick mammography as a speciality. What kind of man would pick it?

🎯

‘well men have female radiographers carrying out their procedures’.

Are these guys tone deaf?
Page 3. Topless calendars at work. Men talking about whether they are breast or bum men.

When has a woman ever, in the history of ever, put a calendar up in a workplace which had a naked man with his penis draped over a car bonnet? Or talked about whether they were a cock or balls girl? Always wished I’d done that to the twerp at my first job who had a topless calendar in the office

Nope. Didnt think so. Let’s just get these chaps to avoid irrelevant comparisons shall we?!

I emailed my MP about this and she has asked if she can share it with the DHSC. Good for her!

@SirChenjins I think this is really poor behaviour from a trade union that is lobbying the government and changing NHS policies that affect patients.

Why are they deleting comments & posts, do we think? Is it to remove evidence that their own union members disagree with them? Then they can gaily push any story they want to the government and policy makers cos 'Look - no evidence of dissent here!'.

The original thread link got taken down as soon as it got quoted on Mumsnet.

Sinister behaviour if you ask me. Should we start to archive their statements too?

Should we start to archive their statements too?

Yes, and screencap their Facebook threads and post them here.

Sunlight.

I agree @Evoker They really don't want the responses to this motion from Lydia Johnson that was passed to be in the public domain, which is really concerning.

Oh now that's interesting - it's just reappeared
Does anyone know how to save a Facebook thread for future reference? There are 217 comments, so a lot of interest in this issue.

AstonUniversityPotholeDepartment is absolutely right.

screencap it.

Screen shots and post on here I think. Facebook links can be doxxing.

Messaged by someone today who works in the field. Mammographers very upset, all the 'higher level' career choices will go to men, while they're stuck at the lower levels apparently. People very pissed off, and rightly.

Oh and as someone pointed out, no problem, there'll be less patients to see, so waiting list issues sorted. Those mythical waiting lists, of course. Literally stuff of legend and folklore.