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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

JK Rowlings latest tweet. Just wow!

1000 replies

Imnobody4 · 03/05/2025 20:36

I've copied it in full.
https://x.com/jk_rowling/status/1918747065460420745?t=bPXQ2pY9VAwPPqFR26_vvw&s=19

In light of recent open letters from academia and the arts criticising the UK's Supreme Court ruling on sex-based rights, it's possibly worth remembering that nobody sane believes, or has ever believed, that humans can change sex, or that binary sex isn't a material fact. These letters do nothing but remind us of what we know only too well: that pretending to believe these things has become an elitist badge of virtue.

I often wonder whether the signatories of such letters have to quieten their consciences before publicly boosting a movement intent on removing women's and girls' rights, which bullies gay people who admit openly they don't want opposite sex partners, and campaigns for the continued sterilisation of vulnerable and troubled kids. Do they feel any qualms at all while chanting the foundational lie of their religion: Trans Women are Women, Trans Men are Men?

I have no idea. All I know for sure is that it's a complete waste of time telling a gender activist that their favourite slogan is self-contradictory nonsense, because the lie is the whole point. They're not repeating it because it's true - they know full well it's not true - but because they believe they can make it true, sort of, if they force everyone else to agree. The foundational lie functions as both catechism and crucifix: the set form of words that obviates the tedious necessity of coming up with your own explanation of why you're one of the Godly, and an exorcist's weapon which will defeat demonic facts and reason, and promote the advance of righteous pseudoscience and sophistry.

Some argue that signatories of these sorts of letters are motivated by fear: fear for their careers, of course, but also fear of their co-religionists, who include angry, narcissistic men who threaten and sometimes enact violence on non-believers; back-stabbing colleagues ever ready to report wrongthink; the online shamers and doxxers and rape threateners, and, of course, the influential zealots in the upper echelons of liberal professions (though we can quibble whether they're actually liberal at all, given the draconian authoritarianism that seems to have engulfed so many). Gender ideology could give medieval Catholicism a run for its money when it comes to punishing heretics, so isn't it common sense to keep your head down and recite your Hail Mulvaneys?

But before we start feeling too sorry for any cowed and fearful TWAWites who're TERFy on the sly, let's not forget what a high proportion of them have willingly snatched up pitchforks and torches to join the inquisitional purges. Call me lacking in proper womanly sympathy, but I find the harm they've enabled and in some cases directly championed or funded - the hounding and shaming of vulnerable women, the forced loss of livelihoods, the unregulated medical experiment on minors - tends to dry up my tears at source.

History is littered with the debris of irrational and harmful belief systems that once seemed unassailable. As Orwell said, 'Some ideas are so stupid that only intellectuals believe them.' Gender ideology may have embedded itself deeply into our institutions, where it's been imposed, top-down, on the supposedly unenlightened, but it is not invulnerable.

Court losses are starting to stack up. The condescension, overreach, entitlement and aggression of gender activists is eroding public support daily. Women are fighting back and winning significant victories. Sporting bodies have miraculously awoken from their slumber and remembered that males tend to be larger, stronger and faster than females. Parts of the medical establishment are questioning cutting healthy breasts off teenaged girls is really the best way to fix their mental health problems.

One seemingly harmless little white lie - Trans Women are Women, Trans Men are Men - uttered in most cases without any real thought at all, and a few short years later, people who think of themselves as supremely virtuous are typing 'yes, rapists' pronouns are absolutely the hill I'll die on,' rubbing shoulders with those who call for women to be hanged and decapitated for wanting all-female rape crisis centres, and furiously denying clear and mounting evidence of the greatest medical scandal in a century.

I wonder if they ever ask themselves how they got here, and I wonder whether any of them will ever feel shame.

https://x.com/jk_rowling/status/1918747065460420745?s=19&t=bPXQ2pY9VAwPPqFR26_vvw

OP posts:
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36
Ereshkigalangcleg · 04/05/2025 08:27

StuckUpPrincess · 04/05/2025 08:25

I'm not seeing the connection between your first and second sentences. In fact I don't understand your first sentence. You're saying that no one has anything in common with each other except bio sex? And what's that got to do with trans people? I'm not understanding what grand case you think I should make.

To get back to the point, I think trans people should be classified as their preferred sex, if they have gone through a full transition. But since some people aren't comfortable even with post-surgery TW being in their spaces, TW and TM should have their own spaces. That would actually lessen the pressure on both to have painful and frightening surgeries.

I rest my case.

LadyBracknellsHandbagg · 04/05/2025 08:27

StuckUpPrincess · 04/05/2025 07:18

But I wanted to come back to you on this point: you said it wasn’t fair on harmless trans people for them to be lumped in with others.
Can I ask: do you apply the same logic to men? Because the same applies. We know there are many, many lovely men but we keep them all out because a small minority are violent and rapey.

We don't always keep them out. Back in 1990 a new pool was built in my town and the changing rooms are mixed - I was always a bit shocked about that! Just one set of changing rooms. Mixed changing rooms and unisex loos - usually single ones, admittedly - have become more common. I think some shops have mixed changing rooms too - although not communal ones, obviously. Anyway, since we can't tell who's harmless and who isn't, I do agree that third spaces are the way. You said that some TW get angry about that - well, they should accept the compromise. Why would they want to upset people? If I was trans, and I was aware that some women felt uncomfortable because of me (whether I'd had surgery or not) I'd gladly use a third space.

I don't agree that trans women will be safe in male loos, if they've transitioned to the extent that they can't switch back to a male look. They're very likely to get beaten up.

I can't speak to your points about TW being attracted to women as I don't have stats about that or about who's more likely to attack who.

I'd like to independently verify the info in the graph you posted, because when I read about sexual attacks in the papers, I don't ever remember the report saying that the perp was trans. So I'd be surprised if the data is accurate, but I'm willing to look it up. Just seems that sex attacks happen all the time and they're rarely reported as a trans woman attacking a woman.

‘Just seems that sex attacks happen all the time and they're rarely reported as a trans woman attacking a woman’

Because the media go along with the charade and call them women. 98% of sexual crimes are carried out by men, TW are men and actually commit sex crimes at a much higher rate than men who don’t identify as trans. The common denominator here is men, they’re all men, no matter how they identify.

Datun · 04/05/2025 08:27

StuckUpPrincess · 04/05/2025 08:17

I'm not understanding how you got all that from me saying that observing the world around you is the best way to see how men and women live differently. I only said that since a couple of posters have said that they really and truly don't know the ways in which men and women live differently.

Crikey. Just think.

Do the men in question actually live like women? Like women live? Second class? And is that the definition of a woman? A second class person?

Come on! Gender roles are imposed on women (that's what Simone de Beauvoir was talking about).

it doesn't matter who's culture it is, it's just degrees of the same.

Gender roles aren't the definition of womanhood, they are the means by which women are oppressed. They are the means by which sexism flourishes.

And people who think if men try and re-enact them (not that they ever do), then they must be women, are just reinforcing it all

It's amazing how these men who are ostensibly acting like women, are threatening women with all sorts of dire consequences if they don't do what they're told.

StuckUpPrincess · 04/05/2025 08:27

Helleofabore · 04/05/2025 08:24

Have I misinterpreted your posts then? I thought you were telling us that male people can live as female people but that you cannot articulate it, and you wouldn't be writing an essay about it.

I was asking whether you had given it any depth of thought at all. Because it is not even a logically sound statement, yet you are discussing it here on this thread.

Well, in my culture, a TW would come and sit on the women's side of the temple, no longer the men's side. And she would have to learn to make challah bread. And also cover her hair in the temple. Quite different to living as a man.

Helleofabore · 04/05/2025 08:28

Ereshkigalangcleg · 04/05/2025 08:16

I have “observed the men and women around me” and the conclusion that I have come to is that there is not one factor that each sex has in common beyond their biological sex. So if there is something different, you’ll need to make your extraordinary case as to why you think a group of men should be classed as women rather than the men they are. Your obfuscation on this point is obvious, @StuckUpPrincess

Indeed.

If someone's superficial understanding of a man living as a woman is that the man copies what is considered in that culture as sexist female stereotypes and copies how they believe 'women' act, then it can only ever remain a misogynistic viewpoint that any male person can 'live' as a female person.

Lovelysausagedogscrumpy · 04/05/2025 08:29

StormyPotatoes · 04/05/2025 08:24

@McLennonK Trans charities need to come up with solutions. Trans advocates should have been focusing on this long ago. Instead they didn’t just push the idea that merely having the thought that you could be trans make you trans, they also have been advocating for younger children to have access to medical transition and even surgery (and thank-fucking-God ‘anti trans people’ (you mean gender critical women) were pushing back on that).

I have the greatest sympathy for you and there are supportive resources out there - have a look at something like https://www.transgendertrend.com to get started. Support but don’t affirm. In most cases children will grow out of it but once they’ve been affirmed it’s harder to walk it back.

None of this is the fault of women like JKR though. You should be furious at the lies TRAs have perpetuated at the cost of children to serve their own wants.

This.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 04/05/2025 08:29

Helleofabore · 04/05/2025 08:28

Indeed.

If someone's superficial understanding of a man living as a woman is that the man copies what is considered in that culture as sexist female stereotypes and copies how they believe 'women' act, then it can only ever remain a misogynistic viewpoint that any male person can 'live' as a female person.

I agree.

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 04/05/2025 08:29

StuckUpPrincess · 04/05/2025 03:41

I believe trans people when they say that they feel they've been born in the wrong body. Maybe that's not a real thing, but I believe that they feel so strongly that they want to be the opposite sex that that's how it feels to them. And I don't believe it has to be a mental-health issue. I believe that some people do genuinely want to be the opposite sex that badly, because they just do. Born that way. And the truth is that we don't know why some people feel that way. But I believe them.

Do you also believe young, slim girls who are convinced they are so fat that they must stop eating?

That is not a real thing either - should we nonetheless support them in their quest to damage their healthy bodies?

StuckUpPrincess · 04/05/2025 08:31

Ereshkigalangcleg · 04/05/2025 08:29

I agree.

@Ereshkigalangcleg @Helleofabore Posting again in case you don't see:

Well, in my culture, a TW would come and sit on the women's side of the temple, no longer the men's side. And she would have to learn to make challah bread. And also cover her hair in the temple. Quite different to living as a man.

spannasaurus · 04/05/2025 08:33

StuckUpPrincess · 04/05/2025 08:25

I'm not seeing the connection between your first and second sentences. In fact I don't understand your first sentence. You're saying that no one has anything in common with each other except bio sex? And what's that got to do with trans people? I'm not understanding what grand case you think I should make.

To get back to the point, I think trans people should be classified as their preferred sex, if they have gone through a full transition. But since some people aren't comfortable even with post-surgery TW being in their spaces, TW and TM should have their own spaces. That would actually lessen the pressure on both to have painful and frightening surgeries.

How do you think service providers could distinguish between those transwomen who have had genital surgery and those who haven't when deciding who should be allowed in female single sex spaces?

Helleofabore · 04/05/2025 08:33

StuckUpPrincess · 04/05/2025 08:27

Well, in my culture, a TW would come and sit on the women's side of the temple, no longer the men's side. And she would have to learn to make challah bread. And also cover her hair in the temple. Quite different to living as a man.

So, you are using cultural aspects based on sexist discrimination to declare that a man can live as a 'woman'.

Yet, that male person has never once made a decision in their life that has been based on them having a female body. They only interact with the world as they believe and have conceptualised a female person would interact with the world based on their very male understanding of the world.

Those male people who are acting, in your opinion, as female people, are not woman unless you, personally, define being a woman as only being a person who follows a particular protocol in temple. Not as being a female person who has choices about how she will act while understanding her body's needs.

StuckUpPrincess · 04/05/2025 08:33

Datun · 04/05/2025 08:27

Crikey. Just think.

Do the men in question actually live like women? Like women live? Second class? And is that the definition of a woman? A second class person?

Come on! Gender roles are imposed on women (that's what Simone de Beauvoir was talking about).

it doesn't matter who's culture it is, it's just degrees of the same.

Gender roles aren't the definition of womanhood, they are the means by which women are oppressed. They are the means by which sexism flourishes.

And people who think if men try and re-enact them (not that they ever do), then they must be women, are just reinforcing it all

It's amazing how these men who are ostensibly acting like women, are threatening women with all sorts of dire consequences if they don't do what they're told.

I do think that TW who pass well - i.e. maybe they were quite small and feminine-looking in the first place - it wouldn't surprise me at all if they experienced the same sexual harassment women have always faced.

Annoyedone · 04/05/2025 08:34

StuckUpPrincess · 04/05/2025 07:28

I'm not going to explain, because I believe you are aware of the differences in the ways men and women live their lives. I'm not going to write an essay teaching you the obvious.

Well yes I am. But all those ways relate to biology. For example a man will never experience periods and childbirth and a woman will never experience the pain of getting a penis caught in a zip. Apart from biological differences there is no way in which woman and men live different lives unless you resort to sexist stereotypes such as boys liking football and girls liking ballet.

We can see the way men do not understand how women feel and live with the way they downplay women’s needs for single sex spaces can’t we. ,

ArabellaScott · 04/05/2025 08:35

StuckUpPrincess · 04/05/2025 08:17

I'm not understanding how you got all that from me saying that observing the world around you is the best way to see how men and women live differently. I only said that since a couple of posters have said that they really and truly don't know the ways in which men and women live differently.

Because women can live very differently from each other! The one thing we have in common is our biological sex, the rest is arbitrary. Some of us have short hair and don't wear make up and work in construction and fart a lot. Some of us wear high heels, some of us smoke, some of us are attracted to women, some of us laugh a lot, some of us hate cats. What the bloody hell do you think we have in common other than our XX chromosomes and biological sex?!

I'm not being funny, can you really not even have a stab at it?

Steelmanning this argument one could say that statistically women don't commit sexual assault or crime in particular. Statistically women tend to work in certain fields more than others. But: statistics include extreme outliers. Tendencies and trends arent absolute - generalisations are generalisations. Being outwith the statistical average doesn't make a woman a man.

The only thing that makes a woman a man is ... being male.

StuckUpPrincess · 04/05/2025 08:35

Helleofabore · 04/05/2025 08:33

So, you are using cultural aspects based on sexist discrimination to declare that a man can live as a 'woman'.

Yet, that male person has never once made a decision in their life that has been based on them having a female body. They only interact with the world as they believe and have conceptualised a female person would interact with the world based on their very male understanding of the world.

Those male people who are acting, in your opinion, as female people, are not woman unless you, personally, define being a woman as only being a person who follows a particular protocol in temple. Not as being a female person who has choices about how she will act while understanding her body's needs.

I don't think a TW can live exactly as a bio woman, no. TW are not bio women.

I also don't believe my culture is sexist, btw.

StuckUpPrincess · 04/05/2025 08:36

ArabellaScott · 04/05/2025 08:35

Because women can live very differently from each other! The one thing we have in common is our biological sex, the rest is arbitrary. Some of us have short hair and don't wear make up and work in construction and fart a lot. Some of us wear high heels, some of us smoke, some of us are attracted to women, some of us laugh a lot, some of us hate cats. What the bloody hell do you think we have in common other than our XX chromosomes and biological sex?!

I'm not being funny, can you really not even have a stab at it?

Steelmanning this argument one could say that statistically women don't commit sexual assault or crime in particular. Statistically women tend to work in certain fields more than others. But: statistics include extreme outliers. Tendencies and trends arent absolute - generalisations are generalisations. Being outwith the statistical average doesn't make a woman a man.

The only thing that makes a woman a man is ... being male.

I did, above:

Well, in my culture, a TW would come and sit on the women's side of the temple, no longer the men's side. And she would have to learn to make challah bread. And also cover her hair in the temple. Quite different to living as a man.

Bluebootsgreenboots · 04/05/2025 08:36

So what is the solution for someone like me whose child is absolutely certain that they are the gender opposite to that on their birth certificate? Sdo I just ignore their feelings? Treat them like they are mentally ill? Tell them they are just falling for some 'myth'? While my child threatens to self harm if they are forced to carry on in the gender that feels completely wrong to them? I simply don't know what to think, and JKR and these extreme anti-trans people make me frantic with worry for my child.
It would be good, instead of ranting against trans people and their supporters, if JKR and her ilk could offer some real solutions.

@McLennonK
As someone in a similar situ, I find her post very helpful. Trying to get a distressed, unstable person to be realistic about the impact of their life choices is hard enough without the background shouting of all the virtue signalling cheerleaders in the media saying TWAW, which we all know, is a lie.
I have many lovely friends posting ‘be kind’ memes all over Facebook. That just makes me stand out as the baddie for trying to get my child to realise that if they continue the course of action that they’re fixed on, they will likely be infertile and have limited sexual function.
I am happy to support my child with their choices, but they need to be realistic about what those choices entail, and that’s impossible when all these celebrities, CEOs, writers, academics and NHS bosses are using my child to tell the world how kind and progressive they are.

Helleofabore · 04/05/2025 08:36

StuckUpPrincess · 04/05/2025 08:31

@Ereshkigalangcleg @Helleofabore Posting again in case you don't see:

Well, in my culture, a TW would come and sit on the women's side of the temple, no longer the men's side. And she would have to learn to make challah bread. And also cover her hair in the temple. Quite different to living as a man.

Considering also that if you are separated in temple, I assume that you don't have the freedom that male people do, so you are living in a male dominated world. Yet you don't have the freedom to not live as a female person, yet these male people do have the freedom to live in either?

Have you considered that by this very nature, those male people are not women? They have choices that you don't.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 04/05/2025 08:36

@StuckUpPrincessi don’t believe that making bread and covering your hair and occupying womens spaces makes a man into a woman and neither does the UK Supreme Court. In the continued absence of a better argument, from you or any other gender believer I’ve ever spoken to, I’ll continue to know a woman is an adult female human being, not a collection of stereotypes a man can claim.

Datun · 04/05/2025 08:38

StuckUpPrincess · 04/05/2025 08:33

I do think that TW who pass well - i.e. maybe they were quite small and feminine-looking in the first place - it wouldn't surprise me at all if they experienced the same sexual harassment women have always faced.

And this is how it always goes. Okay, it's not any man.

It's only a man who had surgery.

Okay, not just that, it's only a man who has had surgery and looks like a woman.

Even though you know, statistically, it makes no difference if they've had surgery or look like a woman, you still think that some men deserve to use women.

Only, in this freshly imagined scenario, the women and girls might be unaware.

These men don't really need to try, do they? There are plenty of women falling over to do their sexism for them.

ArabellaScott · 04/05/2025 08:38

StuckUpPrincess · 04/05/2025 08:27

Well, in my culture, a TW would come and sit on the women's side of the temple, no longer the men's side. And she would have to learn to make challah bread. And also cover her hair in the temple. Quite different to living as a man.

It's just a man sitting somewhere else and baking bread. Doesn"t make him a woman. At all.

Helleofabore · 04/05/2025 08:38

StuckUpPrincess · 04/05/2025 08:35

I don't think a TW can live exactly as a bio woman, no. TW are not bio women.

I also don't believe my culture is sexist, btw.

Yet in temple you are segregated by sex.

Isn't that the definition of sexist discrimination?

sandgreen · 04/05/2025 08:39

The open letters were really getting me down. I needed to hear this, so thanks to JKR.

StuckUpPrincess · 04/05/2025 08:39

Ereshkigalangcleg · 04/05/2025 08:36

@StuckUpPrincessi don’t believe that making bread and covering your hair and occupying womens spaces makes a man into a woman and neither does the UK Supreme Court. In the continued absence of a better argument, from you or any other gender believer I’ve ever spoken to, I’ll continue to know a woman is an adult female human being, not a collection of stereotypes a man can claim.

I don't think it makes them into a biological women, either. It makes them into a trans woman, who is not a bio woman. But if the TW has had all the surgery and has been taking longterm hormones, then they are no longer a regular man either.

ArabellaScott · 04/05/2025 08:40

ArabellaScott · 04/05/2025 08:38

It's just a man sitting somewhere else and baking bread. Doesn"t make him a woman. At all.

Put it this way - I don't sit in a temple, have never made challah bread and don't cover my hair. I've given birth to two children. I'm still a woman, yes?

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