Allow Male Workers to perform mammograms and breast screening

[CrakdEgg]

OK, so the Society & College of Radiographers have their annual delegates conference, where members bring forward motions for the union to lobby on.
In the past they have passed motions to 'remove gendered language' from health communications for inclusivity - you know, 'pregnant people' and the like. They then lobby behind the scenes to the Government to follow these requests.

This year we have this motion -

Allow Male Workers to Perform Mammograms

Workforce shortages: there are 15 posts for mammographers on NHS jobs. In the UK.

But are we bothered? Do we not want males in this space, or does it not matter because we have male gynaecologists? Or will it dissuade women from attending?

I am interested to hear other people's opinions. My instincts say 'no way Jose', but I am interested in keeping males out of female spaces, so I accept my bias.

Thoughts?

Can't see it working that well to reduce waiting times or increase take-up even as a temporary measure. Why would women who don't want a male doing their mammogram make, or come to the appointment?

Makes no sense to you.

COS YOU ARE NOT LISTENING.

Single sex provision is encoded into law because of the legal recognition of the vulnerability of females to males and the need to understand criminal behaviour patterns. It is NOT sexist to protect women. It is safeguarding because of the sexist abuse of women by males.

Stop the sexist behaviour of men, then there wouldn't be a need. This is not a problem due to the 'wrongthink' of women.

Women do not need their behaviour 'correcting' in this scenario.

I'm invoking Rule 12 at this point of the thread.

Women’s ability to recognize male behavior patterns is misandry.

I don't think that's weird. I've had a hysteroscopy done by a male and wasn't bothered but would prefer not to have a mammo done by a male.

There's also a difference between screening and referrals. You don't want to give further discouragement for people to attend screenings.

With us or against us emotional blackmail propanda. Again.

If you don't agree with me, you are morally weak and inferior.

This is coercive. It is unacceptable behaviour when discussing intimate examinations and conditions regarding consent.

We see you.

75% of radiographers are female.

If they cant recruit from that base, there's a problem with the working conditions. Rush appointments, being isolated in carpark portacabins, are all poor conditions for patients too.

If men dont want to be treated by women, they need to speak up about it.

If men have no issue with female HCP, it doesnt follow that women should be happy to be treated by men.

But for gynae appointments mostly you just take your pants off.

For a mammogram you are half naked.

There is no way a man could do the job without a chaperone, who would have to be paid.

Men are told no, men find another way to get to females unhindered. This is what this is all about.

Personally I find a mammogram far more uncomfortable than a smear. It's very intimate, they are literally shoulder to shoulder to you lifting your breast onto the vice and manipulating it. You feel so helpless when your breast is between the plates, you can't move and it's uncomfortable. And you would have to have chaperones, so there would be no cost saving. I've had various breast operations, been examined by men/students, but I really wouldn't want this procedure done by a man.

Quite - my point was that if there’s a shortage of volunteers then improve the working conditions first before casting about to put males into isolated portacabins with topless women…. What could possibly go wrong? Or maybe it would only be a couple women badly affected so that’s ok [sarcasm]

I meant to wear to get to the machine. Previous posters have mentioned walking into the area topless and not being given a gown at all. If I get the gown you describe I will leave my sarong in my bag.

"No way Jose" from me, too.

I wonder if some of these posters sneering at those of us who want to set boundaries have ever noticed the large numbers of male doctors convicted of sexual offences against female patients? Once you start watching out for it, you realise how commonplace it is.

They haven't even acknowledged the posters on this thread who have been assaulted so I doubt they bother reading anything you put under their noses

This has enraged me today. I don't know why I still get shocked at the total lack of empathy for vulnerable women, but I do.

It's a hell of a lot of fuss for 15 vacancies, with suspicious timing. There are far more NHS vacancies in speech and language therapy - over 25% of posts are empty.

If you look at the qualifying degrees for the NHS bursary they target some qualifications with an extra 1K on top of the 5K -
https://www.nhsbsa.nhs.uk/nhs-learning-support-fund-lsf/training-grant

So it's a general recruitment issue - why do they think removing SSC here will make a difference?

No. I don't think they should be midwives or gynae doctors either to be honest

SOR tweet

Those 15 vacancies described as "critical"? Yeah there's another agenda at play here for sure

Maybe is seems that way to you but it certainly does not to me.

I've already had BC. I am supremely grateful to the routine screening service, and probably owe them my life, but I could not relax if a male were to carry out this service. There is a lot of manipulating, intimate maneuvering and holding, and a male hcp is not appropriate.

If this change was forced on us, I would simply book appointments, attend and then refuse to take part if it was a man.

And I won't apologise for that.

Although more than 4,000 NHS staff were accused of rape, sexual assault, harassment, stalking, or abusive remarks towards other staff or patients in 2017-22, the BMJ and Guardian investigation found that only 576 have faced disciplinary action.
In a statement, the Department of Health and Social Care said: "The health and social care secretary is working closely with the NHS and recently convened an urgent meeting with NHS leaders to discuss how to root out this vile behaviour and ensure services are always safe for staff and patients."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-65671018

Knowing how much they have to manoeuvre my boobs to mammogram them I see the advantage in the operator having experience of having boobs so they know how it feels.

I don't see why men's right to equal employment opportunities, should trump the right of women, including SA survivors, to have their mammogram with a female clinician. The lack of empathy from some on this thread is staggering.

In an ideal world, nobody would have suffered male sexual violence. I'd much rather not have PTSD, or have to explain that history to a stranger. But if I'm having traumatic flashbacks at a mammogram appointment due to the vulnerability and physical discomfort, the presence of a male clinician will make it 100x times worse. However professional they are.

For screening, it's important to get as many women as possible through the door. Many of whom will be worried, fearful, reluctant. Women who have a past history of male violence are a minority of women, but sadly we're quite a numerous minority. Some of us will be OK with a male clinician but many won't, so the possibility of a male radiographer doing their mammogram will be the final straw that means some women turn down breast screening. That's bad news for women's health outcomes. Which ought to be the primary consideration here.

Women who don't want a male radiographer due to modesty or embarrassment or religious and cultural reasons shouldn't be made to feel judged as wanting or wrong thinking either.

Had several mammograms, definitely would want a woman doing it. In fact I’m pretty sure that at my last scan a couple of months ago, I was offered a chaperone too. But scans in my area are done at the local breast health clinic at the hospital so I expect they have the staff available to do that. (The room is certainly big enough for another person).

in my experience, female gynaecologists are no more or less likely to be gentle than the men. I’ve had coil fittings, hysteroscopies and polyp removals done by varied medics. The overriding theme is “it’s just a sharp pinch” in terms of pain (it bloody isn’t) and the fault there is with the NHS and profession in general not recognising its painful for a significant number of women and offering sufficient pain relief for such procedures.

The difference is that gynae procedures are inevitably done with several people in the room, and a very professional atmosphere, which allows you to “detach” and treat it like any other medical procedure. Whereas mammograms are, as pp have said, very intimate with the mammographer getting bodily very close and handling your breasts in ways normally reserved for your partner.

In terms of vacancies, it makes no sense to recruit male staff but have to employ another woman too in order to chaperone. Also, the figure of 15 vacancies being discussed - is that nationally? Because it seems low to me, less than one per Trust?