Allow Male Workers to perform mammograms and breast screening

[CrakdEgg]

OK, so the Society & College of Radiographers have their annual delegates conference, where members bring forward motions for the union to lobby on.
In the past they have passed motions to 'remove gendered language' from health communications for inclusivity - you know, 'pregnant people' and the like. They then lobby behind the scenes to the Government to follow these requests.

This year we have this motion -

Allow Male Workers to Perform Mammograms

Workforce shortages: there are 15 posts for mammographers on NHS jobs. In the UK.

But are we bothered? Do we not want males in this space, or does it not matter because we have male gynaecologists? Or will it dissuade women from attending?

I am interested to hear other people's opinions. My instincts say 'no way Jose', but I am interested in keeping males out of female spaces, so I accept my bias.

Thoughts?

Precisely. Female doctors examine mens testicles, prostates etc and you don't hear a thing, it's accepted, its what doctors of either sex are trained to do.
But for some reason females want trained males to be excluded from certain roles.
It makes no sense to me and is sexist.
Provided the person is trained then just accept your appointment and get on with it.

JFC. Could you be any more dismissive?
Men assault women in a way that women don’t assault men. HCPs are not a sacred caste, if they’re men, they’re still a problem. If they don’t want to be treated as such they need to stop assaulted and abusing women. You think that the men in the Giselle Pelicot case were outliers?

I don’t want men doing this. I personally don’t want a male GP, gynaecologist or male midwife either but I was never given a choice about that.
so it’s not a case of ‘see it’s fine, men are already doing it in all other areas of healthcare’.
Its a case of ‘we don’t ever ask women what they want and we’re going to push this through in this one final area so we can collect the set’.

if there’s a shortage of manmographers then the NHS need to pay them properly and there won’t be. That’s on the NHS and government funding to sort out, not on the individual female patient to accept.

I've had three mammograms and at the first one the initial discussion and checklist of questions they need to go through with you was done while I was undressing in the room with the radiographer.

The last two have been done on a tighter timescale and you had to be topless and ready to go in a side cubicle before entering the radiography room which meant standing there topless while going through the checklist.

I assume this is a cost cutting exercise to shorten the appointment time and therefore see more women.

So, no empathy whatsoever for women with trauma from experiencing sexual violence from men, something that, 'sexist' as it is, doesn't really happen the other way around?

Is this the next tactic after the Supreme Court ruling? Female-only services don't exist to improve inclusivity and outcomes for women but to be cruel and exclusionary to men? Are we back to arguing why female-only spaces are essential already? It's so tiresome having to go over the same old arguments again and again and never being able to move on to the next battle.

They are trained and vetted. You seem to be suggesting men should not be employed in any NHS role at all... or anywhere even?
Personally I will stand up for equality in all respects whether on sex, race whatever. You should too.

Given a choice I would prefer a female to do my mammogram but would not reject a bloke. It does feel more personal than a vaginal exam - because there is so much repositioning and hands on and I can see the person doing this up close as they do it. I usually just ignore the man with the speculum between my legs.

I would like women to be at the same risk of sexual assault as men in a healthcare setting.

Any suggestions as to how we can make that happen?

When men don’t take advantage of vulnerable women then I’ll treat them equally. As it is, male doctors have not demonstrated themselves to be immune to assaulting the women in their care.

You are clearly demonstrating themselves issues with “equality” between men and women. 95% of violent crime and 98% of sexual crime is commented by men. There’s no equality with women there.

You may not have a problem with that. You don’t get to give away women’s boundaries because you don’t think they matter.

Excellent - equality for all women accessing NHS services is so important, I applaud your stance. How do you propose that will happen when women don't want or can't have a male carrying out their mammogram?

Why do they think this appeals to women either?

I get the accessability argument - but only to a point. Some of the accompanying decisions are ridiculous.

The last one of these mobile vans I saw was in a supermarket car park. But reasonably the only way you'd manage to get to that supermarket is if you had a car anyway...

It makes little sense.

I was examined by a male consultant during a breast cancer scare. Honestly I couldn't have cared less whether it was a man or woman, I just wanted to know whether I should be worried about cancer.

As long as women are given the option to request a female member of staff if that's important to them, I can't see any issue with men performing mammograms.

Dear God.

How do people not understand it STILL.

To be this priviledged and lacking in comprehension skills when its explained numerous times on this thread.

We've spend a fortune on rainbow training in this country, but basis safeguarding principles and observations about how offenders are both opportunistic and seek out positions of trust are so badly understood.

I agree. If you are going to require a female clinician, that needs to be sorted at the booking stage.

The outcomes will be worse for those you are suggesting should wait longer if they don’t want a man.

Surely you would just go private?

Are you a man, is that why it makes no sense to you? Because if you are, not everything has to make sense to YOU in order for it to make sense to others.

If you’re a woman, then quite honestly where is your empathy? Especially for SA survivors? Don’t they have rights?

I guess if you could afford to?

Absoluetely.

Otherwise you are under 'undue pressure' to make a decision on the spot which could mean your 'consent' is actually invalidated.

(On the spot under pressure selling is banned as a high pressure sales technique because it changes behaviour and makes people make different decisions than they would in other situations. Margaret McCartney has written at length about how coercive some screening programmes are in practice because of the tactics they use to try and drive up uptake. Her argument is that in some cases this may be doing various harms to certain groups and in some scenarios better information for patients actually leads to less uptake of screening. She presents a fascinating discussion over the pros and cons of screening and considerations about what 'the best interests of patients' actually means).

So if there is no role for male mammographers how do they fill the vacancies?

it’s a 3 year degree is radiography, state registration, and a post grad qualification. That’s what, 5 years to qualify?

they could offer apprenticeships and bursaries, but is still doesn’t address the immediate issue.

recruit from overseas? More difficult now post brexit.

train existing radiographers? Yes but will still be a year while they qualify.

i’d have really loved to be a radiographer. If they offered an apprenticeship where I could train and earn I’d have done it 5/10 years ago. I did look into it but I couldn’t afford fees and 3/4 years lost wages. I’m now 50 and looking more at retirement than starting a career.

perhaps if they did accelerated degrees for those with existing qualifications? I already have a biology degree - offer me a two year apprenticeship or a post grad and I’d have a rethink. Even condensing it into a one year very intense course I could do now my kids are at uni, I have the time.

But it means that they can deal with many of the access issues. My local mammogram unit is a 30-40 minute drive away and the parking at the hospital is DIRE. By using the travelling units, it does make it easier for many if not all users. If I did need to use a taxi to get there it would be a 3 to 5 quid fare each way and not a 30 to 40 quid fare each way. I live in an area of many semi rural village communities who would struggle more than I did to get to the local hospital based unit. The travelling Unit closes before the supermarket does so better safety than you may think. The clinician and the admin do chat together. They are Radiographers not Radiologists, so yes sometimes they will be able to see who will need a callback but not always, and this would not be any different at a hospital based unit. I had every mammogram that was offered to me until I aged out, I would have been able to have many less if my only choice had been a hospital based unit.

I’ve had a male radiographer do an echocardiogram several times and felt quite comfortable - they also involve a bit of boob manipulation.
Whenever I’ve had a mammogram there’s always been one female on reception and another doing the exam, plus a patient or two waiting. I don’t think it would bother me too much, to have it done by a man, particularly as 2 of my closest friends were recently diagnosed with breast cancer on their regular mammograms. Maybe women should be asked if they’re comfortable with a male radiographer.
The important thing is to get them done!!!!

What planet are they on? Just been listening to some woman (a radiographer) on Times Radio who thinks it's a great idea. Personally I find a mammogram far more invasive than a smear test. It's up close, manipulating, squishing, deeply uncomfortable. Never in a million years is a man kneading my breast between a giant bloody vice. Also surely you'd need a chaperone so you'd be doubling the staff. And so many women would self exclude. Just a bollockingly bad idea.

If it stops me getting cancer, it's fine by me. Don't see difference to having a male gynaecologist etc. I think it needs to be possible for people to choose though.

No from me.

Does a HCP have the right to touch a patient in intimate areas?
No, they don't. They may do so if consent is given by the patient or in an emergency.

Does a patient have the right to privacy, dignity and safety? Yes, they do. The HCP's rights are not at issue on this precise situation, which is analgous to strip-searching.

In a world in which men from all walks of life assault women, using force or any excuse, including that they are HCPs, the only sexism here is the failure to offer women a female-only service which has the best chance of preserving their rights to privacy, dignity and safety.

As pps have said, increase the pay if there is a shortage. Make it an attractive choice. That's the rational response.