Allow Male Workers to perform mammograms and breast screening

[CrakdEgg]

OK, so the Society & College of Radiographers have their annual delegates conference, where members bring forward motions for the union to lobby on.
In the past they have passed motions to 'remove gendered language' from health communications for inclusivity - you know, 'pregnant people' and the like. They then lobby behind the scenes to the Government to follow these requests.

This year we have this motion -

Allow Male Workers to Perform Mammograms

Workforce shortages: there are 15 posts for mammographers on NHS jobs. In the UK.

But are we bothered? Do we not want males in this space, or does it not matter because we have male gynaecologists? Or will it dissuade women from attending?

I am interested to hear other people's opinions. My instincts say 'no way Jose', but I am interested in keeping males out of female spaces, so I accept my bias.

Thoughts?

Yes, I get that now. A terminology I was unaware of, so good to know. Though unfortunately it sounds like my concerns that “require” is subjective are probably correct.

I'm not aware of a lack of female staff to do cervical smears and routine mammograms, but once you begin treatment, this is just reality and the space time continuum.

There isn't an infinite number of appointment slots and staff, so if you are more flexible you will be seen more quickly.

But have you been given a choice in radiographer?

You book the mammogram, turn up, the radiographer is male - you then have a choice as to whether to have the procedure or walk away.

Its a difficult one to call from a purely technical perspective, possibility of early detection of cancer with purely speculative x ray vs exposure to x radiation with no certain need - but in terms of practicality, you either accept the above and have it done or walk away.

I’ve had several mammograms and wouldn’t have an issue with a male operative. Although when it comes to my fru fru I prefer a female. I’m due a cystoscopy, I’ve requested a female operative for this, still waiting for a date after months of waiting 🤷‍♀️

At the moment the team is all female so you don't have to make that decision. Your lack of empathy for women's experiences on this thread including voyeurism and sexual assault by male health practitioners is breathtaking.

Yes we should be able to choose.

I have to travel an hour each way for my screening. It’s not acceptable to be presented with that “choice” on the day. It should be clear in advance.

The vast majority of mammograms are conducted as part of preventative screening. Male radiographers will mean even more women avoid making these potentially life-saving appointments.

As for the male gynaecologist arguments, I wonder how many women suffer in silence or even die because they hate the idea of gynaecological examinations by a male?

How about rape-kit examinations being conducted by males because you don't want to be a silly, upright prude and cause a nuisance for NHS staffing procedures, do you?

A lot of the arguments in favour of this are very third-wave anti-structural analysis, i.e., women are the problem and they just need some attitude adjustment to better endure systems that don't accommodate their material reality.

CavalierApproach I have had many many investigations (Ovarian cancer ) and still would not like a male radiographer to examine my breasts .I am also surprised at the fact there is a shortage of radiographers .I also have to have CT scans and there is a radiography college where I have some of my scans .

How would you ensure equity of service for women who didn't want a male radiologist?

Just to be pedantic, radiologists are specialist doctors - they are the people who analyse the scan images for signs of cancer. Radiographers are the people who carry out the scan. The challenge of training and recruiting radiographers to carry out mammograms is considerably smaller, I'd imagine, than the challenge of training and recruiting radiologists, of which there is also a shortage.

the patient.

Ive only had one examination where I thought the Dr was taking liberties and asked me to remove more clothing than was strictly necessary. It was in France and I was a student. I’m not sure I’ve ever told anyone about that before today! Sandie Peggie talked about excessive breast exams by her GP as a young woman. The vast vast majority of male HCPs will be excellent/fine. But it’s the bad apple problem and it’s so important that there are no extra barriers to screening. So unless there’s a raging shortage of hospital radiographers for mammograms then there’s no justification for including males (ETA the isolated nature of routine screening makes it a definite no)

This is just about women’s not being allowed to say ‘no’ to men.

Apologies - I meant radiographers.

My question re equity of access re radiographers still stands.

The male gynaecologist is a false equivalent. Have I been examined by a male gynaecologist in a hospital with a chaperone? Yes.

Would I attend a smear test in a portable unit in a car park with a lone male gynaecologist? Absolutely not.

Its obvious that the screening service would have to notify women ahead of time that their technician would be a man, likely to be a man or possibly a man.

Which indicates that it is a problem, doesnt it? And that by having men in the role it creates more admin for the team.

Its also difficult for covering for sickness. They cant just swap a man in for the women who rings in sick that day.

I think its trying to solve one problem - staff shortages with something that will create unnecessary knock on effects and has negative experiences for patients.

I fail to see any reason why it's necessary to be completely topless while the procedure is explained, regardless of the sex of anyone else in the room. Surely a patient could at least have their bra on at that point, or a gown?

When I had a hysteroscopy recently all the explanatory part was done and questions asked before I got undressed. (Obviously the doctor still talked through the procedure as it was happening as well.)

I'm possibly missing something as I haven't yet had a mammogram myself, but it sounds like that process could be tweaked to make it more comfortable for women.

It's difficult to explain why a mammogram makes you feel so much more vulnerable and exposed than the apparently far more intrusive vaginal examination, but it does. I quite often have bad dreams about suddenly being topless in public, I've never had one about a vaginal exam!

im not sure about the staff shortage argument either, as you would need even more staff if chaperones have to be provided.

I wondered about that too, I thought I would be given a front-opening gown to put on.

Now I've been warned I will be taking a sarong with me to wrap around my top half, that I can open when necessary.

I would be very bothered by this but, in all honesty, not to the extent that I'd get into the mobile scanning unit, discover the male technician and refuse the scan. But I'd be bloody cross about it and feel extremely awkward and intimidated. And the knowledge that a man could be doing what is already a very intimate, awkward and often painful procedure could well be enough to put some women off getting it done. If a woman knew that a man might well be doing a smear test, what percentage do we think would just not turn up?

So while for me, I could just about tolerate it (under duress and because I just wanted it done) I don't speak for other women and suspect it would have a really detrimental effect on take-up. It's extremely dangerous.

Ah, so yes, you are being deliberately obtuse.

Your opinion on what women should be allowed to ask for during intimate examinations is of no interest, relevance or consequence and most of all, no value.

I was given a short front opening gown (like a little jacket) to wear after I'd removed my top and bra but had to take it off while the mammogram was being done. You can't have anything on your top half. You are so close into the machine and it has moving parts. You won't be able to wear your sarong, I'm afraid.

It is the way the cabin is set up. Ours has an entrance area where the HCP opens the door and checks your name off the list. You are ushered into a cubicle for changing - hard doors/walls/sealed etc - where you enter one side and then exit topless into the room with the scanner. They check your name again (this happens several times to make sure they have the correct person) and explain how to stand etc. Then they manhandle you into position with their arms wrapped around you to get the right angles. That happens on both sides and maybe again if it hasn't taken properly. You maybe getting dressed as they tell you about when the results will come. It is all odd and slightly mechanical. With a smear there are curtains and covers. But the mammogram you are moving about in a space undressed with close contact from a fully clothed HCP. Maybe the perception is that it is less intrusive, or maybe because they are doing them every 15 minutes all day. But it is quite a process driven experience - although the woman was perfectly nice

I don't know why I'm shocked by the number of posters claiming to be utterly baffled as to why some women might refuse care from a male medic, but I am. It's depressing. Such a total lack of empathy for women who have experienced male violence, though that's nothing new, is it?

Same here. The room you strip off in and exit from is locked so your valuables are safe. It’s a very quick and efficient process.