Wes Streeting on the nhs.

[Imnobody4]

From the Times;
Transgender patients could be treated in private rooms in NHS hospitals to protect their “rights and dignities”, Wes Streeting has said.

The health secretary said NHS guidance on same-sex wards is being reviewed in light of the Supreme Court ruling that a woman is defined by biological sex under equalities law

Asked about his previous comments that “trans women are women — get over it”, he said: “I’ve addressed this previously and I don’t mind kind of saying, ‘look, you know, I don’t think that was the right thing to say’.

And actually, I wish I’d listened much earlier. I don’t think we, to be honest, given some of the rough discourse we’ve had on these issues in recent years, I don’t think we lose anything by having a bit of humility to say, ‘actually, I wish we’d listened’.”

https://www.thetimes.com/article/3446833b-e40b-40b8-8168-d49e277ae75a?shareToken=0355c6bdd9c0aaf388bc5b8992a65575

No, that's not what will be happening. Wards will be single sex (as they should have been all along except trusts ignored that). There won't be any 'I don't mind' nonsense.

Don’t most NHS hospitals still have a few side rooms on each ward for people who need to be barrier-nursed or have additional needs or are dying, etc?

I’ve been in some notoriously terrible NHS hospitals, but even they had side rooms in addition to the open bays of beds.

I am very sorry for your situation. Do you stay with your child on the ward? It is a very different situation when you have to leave them on an adult ward.

when my mother was dying, we had to wait 4 days for the side room - luckily she hung on (not expected by doctors) so we had a precious 36 hours with her in a side room. They are not easy to get.

Strategic humility.

There is a story that I seem to remember from sometime in the last few months.
An immunocompromised transplant (transplant?) was in a private room for obvious reasons. However, she was decanted onto the general ward when a transgender patient was admitted to the ward. The staff were horrified by this action. IIRC, the woman died.
There are people who really do need a private room and there can be intense competition for them.

You still can't see they what you're asking for isn't dignity, it's privilege. The fact that women having equal rights to transpeople looks like women's rights 'steamrollering' trans rights to you, just shows how unequal things have been.

I'm sorry that you have a trans- identifying child who has been lied to that they can change sex, and that other people will view them as the sex they want to be; it wasn't true, but it wasn't us doing the lying. Yes people with the PC of gender reassignment are equally as protected as women under the Equality Act, but equality doesn't mean other people have to subscribe to your beliefs. What you want is the equivalent of a Muslim woman wanting all the other women in the bay to cover their hair at visiting time, or a Jewish man demanding all the other patients only get kosher food while he's admitted. That's not equality.

If there is a side room free sure the transpeople can have it, but the bed pressures in hospitals are extreme and difficult decisions are made every day, including decisions that mean people have a less peaceful death. Affirming identities shouldn't be high on the priority list in that context. Possibly in some areas which treat more transpeople than others they will be able to cohort transpeople of the same sex and gender identity in bays together, though again with bed management being like doing an enormous 4d jigsaw puzzle that someone tips all the pieces upside down every few hours, that would be a stretch. And Streeting isn't going to quickly write new legislation to make hospitals flex single sex accommodation, mixed sex wards are incredibly unpopular with the electorate,a nd Streeting clearly wants to be popular with the electorate.

Stonewall and their grifting mates have captured the NHS but the supreme court ruling, and Streeting, are pretty clear about what's going to happen, and the privileging of gender beliefs cannot sustain in that context. You need to be realistic.

I am very weary of the performative horror at the idea of a man being vulnerable and frightened and ill among men -

let's be honest, women were told that no one gave a fuck, NAMALT, if someone wanted to rape you they'd do it whatever the precautions, having victim fetishes, if you get raped you can call the police, the man's probably a lovely vulnerable person with more needs than you, educate themselves, get over it, yada yada.

Women don't have any less feelings or humanity than men. They are a fuckton tougher and more resilient though apparently.

I hope provision can be made that means men with trans identities are as safe and comfortable as possible, but women have been expected to suck this up and get on with it for years, and that's been with actual rapes, assaults and exhibitionism constant and more or less normalised with the man still being prioritised over the women provided to him. So my sympathy is a bit low.

Same what’s with the men needing extra support.

There are so many more vulnerable in hospital who could use extra support, dignity and privacy.

mixed sex wards are incredibly unpopular with the electorate

Yes, and that is why so far all the health authorities examined in detail have been slipping in their self identifying gender policies in under the radar.

I’m actually not so sure that there would be equal demand from trans identified males and trans identified females.

We recognise that this is in essence a male rights movement, and males are good at gaming systems. Females, not so much.

As others have said, single rooms should be allocated on clinical need.

This.

Single-sex on the front of the website. Mixed-sex (trans people can go where they like) in tiny letters hidden down the back of a filing cabinet somewhere, only accessible by FOIs.

Annex B was what, 2011? It was public, but only if you knew you needed to go and look for it. And why would anyone think they needed to check that the NHS document saying we had single sex wards, actually had an appendix making them single 'gender' wards? When all patient information etc said single sex wards, all publicity about it said single sex wards. It was kept from us deliberately, Andrew Lansley I think it was decided we didn't need to know.

And that's what gender ideologues relied on, and how they were so successful in capturing public bodies and institutions, backroom deals that us plebs didn't need to be told about. Well they overreached, and now it's all going to have to come down.

Yes, anyway the ‘I don’t mind’ is usually women feeling embarrassed, maybe not wanting to make a fuss or just bloody frightened.

And that's what gender ideologues relied on, and how they were so successful in capturing public bodies and institutions, backroom deals that us plebs didn't need to be told about. Well they overreached, and now it's all going to have to come down.

Perfectly put. The new rainbow misogyny capitalising on the old boys network / board room style traditional misogyny.

If only the NHS hadn’t spent millions buying stonewall pats on the head, pronoun badges and diversity champions wages they might have been able to fund specialist wards and spaces for trans people.

Good points.

As others have said he wants the top job. He will say whatever he needs to in order to get it. He's now happily advocating for transgender people's rights and dignity knowing that nobody could possibly disagree with it without seeming transphobic. Not a word about the rights and dignity of all patients. He'll say whatever it takes to be popular. Never mind the minor details such as lack of staff / private rooms etc. I wouldn't trust this man to be in charge of my cat's health never mind the nation's.

A worrying thought that has just occurred to me is about the - mainly cancelled - new hospitals programme. Newer hospital accommodation often has more provision of single rooms and smaller bays than traditional nightingale style wards and additional accommodation would make it easier to meet the needs of everyone needing those rooms, including trans people where appropriate.

Are we about to see a lot of “well we would implement the SC ruling, but can’t as you didn’t give us money for a shiny new hospital” ?

Can't wait for his reverse ferret when Lucy Letby is exonerated

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5y7y3vgm2mo.amp

He’s much less of a wet blanket than Keir, isn’t it? I could respect a Labour Party that elected him. But I won’t vote for them again until they elect a female leader, which they have never done.

'shoved in' isn't the words he used. He said they would be placed on the ward which matches their biological sex and in order to comply with the dignity and respect requirement he offered a possible solution where curtains could be pulled around their bay so that they have some privacy. I think how this is done in practice is up to hospitals to decide but what they cannot do is have mixed sex wards under any circumstances.

In an ideal 'if money were no object' situation which we all know doesn't actually exist, all trans people would have their own private room but in the current circumstances where beds are at a shortage and the NHS is severely stretched, males can no longer in any circumstances be placed on the same ward as females as that is now unlawful.

No, because you either have single sex provision, which means actual sex, or you have mixed sex provision,and the NHS is forbidden from having mixed sex wards by the NHS constitution. It won't be possible for hospitals to say they can't do it, they have to do it or they'll breach. And they've been pretending to do it since 2011 so they can't say it's impossible now. NHS hospitals will not be able to say they can't obey the law, especially when the law says they have to do something they've said they've been doing for years already.

Andrew Lansley is not a name I’ve come across. Thanks for that - going to go research to share with the NHS audit group.

Lansley was secretary of state for health when NHS single sex accommodation was mandated and annex B was written, I think it was 2011.