Wes Streeting on the nhs.

[Imnobody4]

From the Times;
Transgender patients could be treated in private rooms in NHS hospitals to protect their “rights and dignities”, Wes Streeting has said.

The health secretary said NHS guidance on same-sex wards is being reviewed in light of the Supreme Court ruling that a woman is defined by biological sex under equalities law

Asked about his previous comments that “trans women are women — get over it”, he said: “I’ve addressed this previously and I don’t mind kind of saying, ‘look, you know, I don’t think that was the right thing to say’.

And actually, I wish I’d listened much earlier. I don’t think we, to be honest, given some of the rough discourse we’ve had on these issues in recent years, I don’t think we lose anything by having a bit of humility to say, ‘actually, I wish we’d listened’.”

https://www.thetimes.com/article/3446833b-e40b-40b8-8168-d49e277ae75a?shareToken=0355c6bdd9c0aaf388bc5b8992a65575

Excellent and useful insights there. There is a sizeable population of people who are living with learning disabilities or autism.

As you indicate - a substantial proportion of these populations might benefit from single rooms where they can control the noise and light or have support from an advocate or family member.

And, I can’t be alone in wishing this option were available for anyone with dementia or delirium.

Or trying to keep the baying trans activist mob pacified with words he absolutely knows cannot happen in practice but which shows he also understands the equality act and what the ruling said?

i seem to remember a similar (but worse) option was offered previously - transwomen on women’s wards, but in a private room. Trans groups were up-in-arms because of the unfairness of separating transwomen from women, preventing them having social interaction. This despite the obvious advantages of a private room. You would imagine that, for anyone ill enough to be in hospital, validation wouldn’t be that much of a priority 🤷‍♀️

He is all about keeping everyone pacified with deluded comments like this.

You know how he is getting the wait lists down? Not by treating people faster…oh no!
By paying trusts £20 for each person they kick off the wait list.

This exactly.

Surely you can see that trans people deserve privacy and dignity too?

That "man in a nightie" could be a frightened 19 year old trans woman who has sepsis. It could be a 65 year old trans woman who had full SRS back in the 1990s and has been treated as a woman in her community for 40 years. It could be an autistic 25 year old trans man who has liver cancer.

It's not about "feeling unsafe", it's about dignity. We all deserve to be treated with dignity and respect when we are ill, and yes that includes women who deserve and need single sex spaces. But if you can't see that taking a young autistic 20 year old who has breasts and is indeed wearing a nightie who is really poorly and vulnerable and saying "you are a bloke you have to go in the men's ward" is inhumane, then I feel quite shocked at that.

Of course everyone deserves respect and dignity. But, with respect, have you been in a hospital recently?
Things that have happened to me: waiting 8 hours in A&E and someone dying in the waiting room. A woman screaming and taking off her clothes saying they are going to kill themselves. Man with dementia fiddling with himself looking at a young woman. Man, covered in blood f-ing and blinding and struggling with 2 policeman he was handcuffed to. The latter got fast tracked.

To get a private room is extremely unlikely if you are admitted. As someone upthread said it’s given to the ‘end of life patient, or the infectious one, or the teenage or learning disabled one so they could have their mum stay with them’.

Yes I am in hospital very regularly as my teenaged child has an incurable illness.

I am glad that you believe that everyone deserves respect and dignity. Characterising hospitalised trans people as "men in nighties...feeling unsafe" and having a bunch of people agreeing, it appeared as though that was not the case.

I agree that single rooms may be tricky. I suspect that in many hospitals what may happen is that there are large wards divided into "rooms" of 4-8 beds, and what will happen is that some of those rooms will be "inclusive" for women who don't mind sharing with trans or non binary people whilst the rest are single sex , and women will be asked if they need a single sex only room.

And all of these patients will now be treated with dignity in the correct ward for their sex.

It was fine when it was women's dignity that was removed: when mentally ill women were locked in wards with floridly delusional 6 foot blokes, when a woman was raped in a hospital ward by a transwoman and the hospital gaslit her and lied to the police that there were no men in the ward, when hospital policies said that women who raised concerns should be treated the same as racists (Cambridge University Hospital) or that negative opinions would not be tolerated (Leeds Teaching Hospital).

Women are sick of being expected to #bekind, no kindness or consideration has been given to us while we were denied our lawful rights for over a decade and threatened with being reported to the police for committing a hate crime (Cambridge again) if we didn't like having our safe space taken from us when we were ill, scared and vulnerable. It's not 'inhumane' to expect a male to be in a male bay, everyone there is unwell they're not going to start attacking you (what we were told re transwomen in women's wards). Let the male patients be humane to their fellow males, we're not the world's mum.

I really do not think there is any chance whatever of this happening, much as you might want it to.
Thank goodness.

some of those rooms will be "inclusive" for women who don't mind sharing with trans or non binary people whilst the rest are single sex , and women will be asked if they need a single sex only room

Nope, that would breach the law now. Either there's a reason for something to be single sex, and therefore a lawful discrimination, or there isn't and it's mixed sex. Your definition of 'inclusive' would be mixed sex, and an NHS hospital has to provide single sex bays, or report itself for breaching the regs. Women will not and should not be put in the position you suggest, of being asked to share a mixed sex room for the benefit of others' wishes. We're not service animals

Any chance of what happening?

You are mistaken, this is what will happen. The law and the NHS constitution is clear. Unless it's ITU or similar, all bays have to be single sex. And as per last Wednesday, that means actual sex, not gender.

My brother in law is a senior consultant. During COVID they had to create special bays using what was available. If they could do that, then why isn't it possible now?

It is providing single sex bays in that model.

It is providing single sex bays and mixed sex bays.

I actually am a woman and I would not mind being asked if I prefer a single sex bay. You are not all women. You can't say "women" like you speak for every one of us.

You're not listening. The NHS constitution forbid hospitals from having mixed sex accommodation. It's forbidden (unless ITU etc).

Very poorly transwomen automatically and as a matter of general policy being shoved in amongst the men on a men's ward.

Wes Streeting certainly isn't suggesting that.

Genuinely impressed by any politician who can admit they were wrong and that they wish they had listened earlier.

Even if it's just political shrewdness he's at least been consistently vocal about supporting women of late.

Re the private wards, surely this is just words from a politician that won't necessarily translate to actual policy? Am no expert but from my experience of ill relatives the private rooms absolutely have to go to people with persistent MRSA or similar infections to prevent wider spread.

Yes male patients of any gender identity will 'automatically and as a matter of general policy' be put in a male bay. Or, they will be put in a side room which is extremely likely to be needed more by another patient with a greater clinical need.

Why would they be shoved in with very poorly women instead?
Do only trans people need their dignity?

Males are not females. Males are to be housed in same sex wards as other males, no matter how sad their story.

That's not what I said either, is it?

What exactly are you saying?

During COVID, certainly the early lockdown time, a lot of patients went away -all the elective surgeries cancelled etc. So there was more space to repurpose. And there was money cos COVID. Now, hospitals are being told to cut their expenditure back by millions. This will mean redundancies. Spending on making extra special bays will be a bit of a hard sell, when clinical staff will be made redundant to save money. I cant see it but then again, mountains will no doubt be moved to facilitate people of gender in ways that would never be considered in a million years to facilitate women's needs.

I am saying that asserting that trans people ill enough to be hospitalised are "men in nighties" moaning about "feeling unsafe" who should be automatically and as overt policy be put in general men's wards is not acknowledging trans people's humanity or their need to be treated with dignity. However I understand that it is also not appropriate for many women to share space with a trans woman for a variety of reasons. EACH has rights. In the past trans people's rights were steamrolling women's rights, and that was wrong. Just reversing that situation so women's rights now steamroller trans people's is not helpful. Both parties are entitled to privacy and dignity when they are vulnerable.

This is not what was intended by the SC ruling, when they explicitly clarified that trans people remain protected under gender reassignment in the equality act. Clearly taking a 65 year old transwomen with advanced bowel cancer who transitioned in 1985, has no penis to be attacking people with and is known to everyone in her community as Jenny and "outing" her as trans, sticking her in a general male ward is not the aim of this piece of legislation. It does not enable Jenny to receive treatment respectful of her identity and with dignity. If it genuinely is as inflexible as that then I assume other legislation will quickly be written to support more flexibility for hospitals. I don't know what that will look like. I am suggesting it won't look like "You are a bloke in a nightie get in the men's ward".