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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

If your organisation is defying the Supreme Court…

75 replies

Leafstamp · 24/04/2025 09:21

…and you want to whistleblow, post here on mumsnet or you can contact James Esses.

[email protected]

His post on X says this

I’m hearing increasing reports of organisations, private and public, seeking to undermine the Supreme Court judgment.

If your place of work is continuing to deny biological reality and you want to anonymously blow the whistle, please get in touch.

x.com/jamesesses/status/1915306058018427023?s=46

OP posts:
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RedToothBrush · 24/04/2025 17:22

Leafstamp · 24/04/2025 09:21

…and you want to whistleblow, post here on mumsnet or you can contact James Esses.

[email protected]

His post on X says this

I’m hearing increasing reports of organisations, private and public, seeking to undermine the Supreme Court judgment.

If your place of work is continuing to deny biological reality and you want to anonymously blow the whistle, please get in touch.

x.com/jamesesses/status/1915306058018427023?s=46

Excellent!

Can he recruit some no win no fee lawyers?!

Keeptoiletssafe · 24/04/2025 17:25

He’s going to get a lot of schools.

Mumteedum · 24/04/2025 18:03

@Keeptoiletssafe and universities!

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 24/04/2025 18:13

Mumteedum · 24/04/2025 18:03

@Keeptoiletssafe and universities!

@Keeptoiletssafe and the whole of the NHS!

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 24/04/2025 18:14

Also @KnottyAuty, something additional for the NHS emails to employees?

loveyouradvice · 24/04/2025 18:22

I think the `NHS is under real pressure to implement and is one of the few that will be under the EHRC spotlight so although they may not be super speedy I am confident that they will....

Others... Hmmm.... Great that James Esses is doing this ... he has had such a tough time

TreesOfGreen99 · 24/04/2025 18:25

Bristol Old Vic Theatre FB statement

If your organisation is defying the Supreme Court…
Aizen · 24/04/2025 18:26

I'd be keeping an eye on things in Brighton... 😊

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 24/04/2025 18:27

loveyouradvice · 24/04/2025 18:22

I think the `NHS is under real pressure to implement and is one of the few that will be under the EHRC spotlight so although they may not be super speedy I am confident that they will....

Others... Hmmm.... Great that James Esses is doing this ... he has had such a tough time

I agree that they will be under pressure, but they have also been amongst the army of employers who sent out emails to express their deepest sympathy for their alphabet employees on this day of mourning and terribleness (I paraphrase), and no suggestion that they were remotely contrite about what their policies have done to women, so I expect the change to be done with much wailing and kicking and tantruming.

FlirtsWithRhinos · 24/04/2025 18:28

All communities feel welcome and respected.

Except female people who don't identify as sharing indefinable wommanyness with trans women and don't appreciate having triumphant sexism shoved in their faces. Those bitches can fuck right off.

We see you Bristol Old Vic.

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 24/04/2025 18:28

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 24/04/2025 18:27

I agree that they will be under pressure, but they have also been amongst the army of employers who sent out emails to express their deepest sympathy for their alphabet employees on this day of mourning and terribleness (I paraphrase), and no suggestion that they were remotely contrite about what their policies have done to women, so I expect the change to be done with much wailing and kicking and tantruming.

Oh, and secrecy. Because that seems to be the NHS way.

Keeptoiletssafe · 24/04/2025 18:46

Don’t want to post any pictures of toilets because I can’t tell if they are correct but full height ones aren’t welcoming, friendly or safe for those with invisible disabilities.

Although it now seems I can’t delete the picture!

If your organisation is defying the Supreme Court…
GenderRealistBloke · 24/04/2025 18:55

TreesOfGreen99 · 24/04/2025 18:25

Bristol Old Vic Theatre FB statement

This is bad policy (imo) but it’s not a breach of the law, unless they are seeking to rely on a single-sex exemption. Seeking to ban men (except those who are trans) would be a breach, but the sign makes clear anyone can go where they like.

IstayhomeonFridaynight · 24/04/2025 19:03

GenderRealistBloke · 24/04/2025 18:55

This is bad policy (imo) but it’s not a breach of the law, unless they are seeking to rely on a single-sex exemption. Seeking to ban men (except those who are trans) would be a breach, but the sign makes clear anyone can go where they like.

I think the Bristol Old Vic will be in breach as they haven't said that all toilets are unisex, but that people - trans and non-binary people are called out specifically - can use the facilities they find most appropriate.

The intention seems to be to continue to allow transwomen to use the female toilets.

Will be interesting to see if there'll be a test case, as they'll remove people behaving inappropriately. I imagine pointing out that there's a man in the female toilets would count as inappropriate behaviour.

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 24/04/2025 19:18

Keeptoiletssafe · 24/04/2025 18:46

Don’t want to post any pictures of toilets because I can’t tell if they are correct but full height ones aren’t welcoming, friendly or safe for those with invisible disabilities.

Although it now seems I can’t delete the picture!

Edited

That photo looks so ominous! Not welcoming doesn’t really cover it!

WarriorN · 24/04/2025 19:18

Lots of newer arts buildings.

Screamingabdabz · 24/04/2025 19:31

TreesOfGreen99 · 24/04/2025 18:25

Bristol Old Vic Theatre FB statement

So no respect for girls or women. Ok got it.

titchy · 24/04/2025 20:04

RedToothBrush · 24/04/2025 17:22

Excellent!

Can he recruit some no win no fee lawyers?!

Maybe the Good Law Project? Grin

FlirtsWithRhinos · 24/04/2025 20:09

titchy · 24/04/2025 20:04

Maybe the Good Law Project? Grin

Sadly GLP are All Fees No Wins

Echobelly · 24/04/2025 20:18

My understanding is that the SC judgement does not demand that trans women be kept out of single sex space. it may open their access up to litigation, but it doesn't amount to breaking the law if a trans woman uses those facilities or is allowed to.

Organisations are still entitled to have trans inclusive policies (which, again, may be more open to challenge). Basically, the ruling has to be translated into policy, and that has not happened as yet.

ItisntOver · 24/04/2025 20:21

I shall be intrigued to see announcements from CRUK, HDR UK, MHRA, MRC, NICE, NIHR, Our Future Health etc.

Throughahedgebackwards · 24/04/2025 20:29

Echobelly · 24/04/2025 20:18

My understanding is that the SC judgement does not demand that trans women be kept out of single sex space. it may open their access up to litigation, but it doesn't amount to breaking the law if a trans woman uses those facilities or is allowed to.

Organisations are still entitled to have trans inclusive policies (which, again, may be more open to challenge). Basically, the ruling has to be translated into policy, and that has not happened as yet.

I don't think this is right. If a space is advertised as being single sex, then the Supreme Court ruling means that it must be single sex. What the ruling doesn't do is require single sex spaces, but then the space would be open to all men.

FlirtsWithRhinos · 24/04/2025 22:15

My understanding is:

under the Equality Act single sex anything is generally not allowed because that is discrimination against the protected characteristic of sex. So a men-only business network or a vacancy for bar work that requested women only would probably not be ok.

it is however allowed for something to be single sex if it is propotionate to achieving its aim, like a woman-only refuge. Possibly a woman-only business network if it could be shown that women in that industry were a minority and struggled to build effective networks.

What the SC has clarified is that if a single sex exemption is being invoked, the sex on which inclusion/exclusion is based must be biological sex not GRC-certified sex. If you don't do that, you don't have an exemption and then I assume you fall back into not being allowed to discriminate based on sex at all.

Now, what I think is interesting also is that while gender reassignment is protected, gender identity I believe is not. So in theory it's totally fine to have a "woman-gender-only" event just like you could have a Goths-only night - neither is a protected characteristic.

BUT - would a woman-gender-only event hit the problem of indirect sexism? Because genderists have made such a fuss about "cis people" and "cis normative" being the majority and trans the minority, could a man who does not identify as a woman claim he is being indirectly discriminated against on the basis of sex, which is proected, because most people who identify as women are female?

Wouldn't it be hilarious (but also actually genuinely progessive) if this means gender identity ends up being totally disconnected from sex, "cis" and "trans" go away altogether and it's just personality preferences like it always should have been?

TransWomenHaveRights · 24/04/2025 23:27

No you misunderstand the ruling completely
if a space / event / group is to be ‘woman only’
if the organisers of the space / event / group say it’s open to trans women too they are well within their rights to do so, and not breaking any laws.

TransWomenHaveRights · 24/04/2025 23:28

Gender identity has always been separate from sex.

🙄