Is it time to stop the pretence that people can transition?

[happydappy2]

I really feel gender ideology is a cult, that has totally warped some peoples minds. It brings so many problems to society I’m not sure it’s sustainable. It damages the health of young people, shortens their lives and often rips families apart. At what point do we say no, this is not healthy, it’s incredibly antisocial to expect everyone else to pretend you are the opposite sex when they can see you aren’t….for the good of society let’s stop this madness. Gender dysphoria exists yes but I don’t think we’re treating it in the best way. We don’t affirm that an anorexic patient is indeed too fat so why do we affirm people who think they are the opposite sex?

Transgenderism in the sense that a woman can be anything other than an adult human female, or that it is possible to change sex is not IMO a BWORIAD. No more than the Taliban version of religion is a BWORIAD. What they both have in common is their demands on others beyond the believer or practitioner of that belief.

Transgenderism in the sense of thinking about yourself differently or conducting yourself according to what you believe is the way a member of the opposite sex lives is a BWORIAD, just as religion in general is a BWORIAD. What they both have in common in this case are personal engagement with a belief and a code of behaviour for yourself, which do not demand non-believers to participate.

IMO the GRA needs to be removed and gender reassignment needs to be included in the PC of 'religion or belief'.

Just like black face is now not tolerated, I hope one day the idea of woman face will be equally socially unacceptable.

As a child I went through a phase of wanting to be a boy and have a boy’s name. I’m really glad it was treated as a phase because I think if anyone had encouraged me to believe I was trans I could have started down that route. And that would have been a terrible thing.

What I don't understand is what is so bad about being trans? What is so bad about being a trans woman that they are desperate for everyone to see them instead as women? Why can't trans women be trans women and trans men be trans men?

Women and trans women do not have the same biology or health needs, or the same experiences. Trans men and men similarly do not have similar biologies or health needs. The idea that trans women are women or trans men are men erases all these realities.

I'm probably not articulating myself well on this.

Because there is no such thing as trans woman-in reality-the terms trans woman and trans man were invented fairly recently. Historically there were transexual males....males who liked to cross dress. The creation of the trans child validates grown mens fetishes. Once you see the cult for what it is, the whole facade crumbles. Medical establishments have failed in their duty of care to protect children from harm, by telling them they are trans, when they are not.

Look at the fall out from the Supreme Court ruling-a lot of the people protesting and threatening to kill JKR seem quite unwell. The backlash from the SC ruling will be quite nasty and our own PM hasn't even spoken about it to agree he will ensure the law is implemented correctly-perhaps because he is worried about upsetting his own children who may believe in this ideology. The whole thing is a mess

Me fourth

I hated the changes on my body during puberty. I was a tomboy, and had mostly male friends, didn’t like Dollie’s or stereotypical female activities or toys. Didn’t like makeup and hair talk- It was a challenge , but I got through it because I was allowed to find my way. What I realised is that I like women and men equally - so bisexual, have had great relationships with women throughout my life - but eventually settled with a man ( for now! ) and have to grown up sons.

It's called gender dysphoria but it's not. It's a bodily dysphoria around sex markers. Gender is just a made up concept that means nothing. I don't have a feminine gender, far from it. I was a tom boy growing up and still am. I have a male brain (math's and logic) a male job, male hobbies but at the same time they are a female brain, female job, female hobbies because they are mine and I am female. I'm comfortable in my body though which is the difference.

It needs to be acknowledged as any other bodily dysphoria is for example anorexia.

I hope so.
I think we can let the men swan round in dresses if they want to. As long as they know they’re just dressing up like kids who dress up as Spider-Man are just playing and not really superheroes.
And they look ridiculous, at least kids look cute.

I always thought JKR was very clever to include Body integrity dysphoria (BID) in one of her Strike novels.

It fits the plot and his back story but as BID causes people to feel a persistent need to remove or amputate a healthy limb or body part to feel complete, we treat it as a psychiatric disorder.

The TRAs didn't like it because l, if you excuse the pun, it's far too close to the bone and a more accurate comparison than perhaps anorexia.

We don't simply affirm those with this condition.

Ah, very true @happydappy2 about how recent the label of transman/woman is.

The idea of people refusing to accept that their biology cannot transition when their pronouns do is supremely baffling to me.

I would like terms properly clarified before they are used.

What does "transition" actually mean?

I have seen too many news articles about someone who "transitioned into female" and all that some bloke had done was to use a female name in a court case, he hadn't even legally changed his name.

I tried yesterday to get out of a TRA what the minimum requirements were to be considered a trans woman. There was a refusal to answer.

The media deliberately use terms like "transition" and "trans woman" because with the general public it invokes the idea of a transsexual who has had a lot of surgery and hormones injected, no one (or at least used to) think that it meant a geezer with a beard and a rape conviction calling himself Ariana.

An X chromosome cannot become a Y chromosome or vice versa. Everyone knows that, regardless of what they claim to believe.

'Transition' can change some visual characteristics and allow those individuals to live a life they are more comfortable with. Fair enough. That's a choice a mature adult is free to make.

So rather than scrap the term transition, better perhaps to be more honest about what it achieves, which is purely cosmetic.

I used to agree about men in dresses. Just clothes - wear what you want, pretty much.

Until I heard men like Grayson Perry and Debbie Hayton talk openly about the sexual thrill they get from wearing feminine clothes. Particularly in public - Perry has stated that he wears such big frocks to hide his erection. (Which begs the question, are his frocks so short to actually increase the risk of it showing?)

Men should keep their kinks where they belong: in private between consenting adults. I do not consent to being a participant in your kink-play or kink-lifestyle!

It's normally just body dysmorphia, or extreme sexual kink eg Perry.

@heldinadream and @MarieDeGournay yes, the influence of porn is depressingly all-pervasive. I’m not saying there was necessarily a golden age when men held women as equals but there definitely was a concept of respect for women. Now we seem to be despised by men who - laughably - claim they are women.

The point about the internet spreading this ideology is key, I’ve always reckoned this. The parallels with anorexia seem so obvious to me as well. Contagion for some who never would have thought of it otherwise, but also a cause that can be seized upon by angry, unstable, frightening personalities looking for a way to create havoc in society. Aided and abetted by certain powerful groups with their own reasons for shoring up the movement. I don’t mean that to sound sinister as I’m not a conspiracy-theory type at all - but yes, just look at the Dentons document and the extent to which all this was quietly seeded through government etc before anybody really sat up and took proper notice.

It's the fact that educated adults have fallen for all this en masse that never stops amazing me.

All “trans” people both male & female have a mental disorder whether it’s body dysmorphia or AGP. Body dysmorphia isn’t strictly a mental illness but is a symptom of an underlying illness. There is a large element of societal contagion which reminds me of “koro” which is the male mass delusion that their penis is disappearing.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koro_(disease)

@PrettyDamnCosmic I wouldn't say all.

The men going into court or in prison who claim to be trans are not either homosexual transsexual or AGP, the trans card has quite literally become a get out of prison card.

If tomorrow identifying as an alien could get you out of prison, into women's spaces etc suddenly a lot of men would start identifying as aliens and not trans women.

Another example of societal contagion is the epidemic of self-harm particularly among adolescent & young adult females. Fifty years ago a few girls used to cut themselves but at nowhere near the rate it happens today.

Correct. I had forgotten about the bad faith actors. Let me rephrase it. All “genuine” transsexuals have a mental disorder whether it’s body dysmorphia, AGP, internalised homophobia or whatever.

So where do we draw the line for what is considered acceptable? Flashing is a criminal offence, quite rightly. Masturbating in public is a criminal offence.

Men are telling us they are sexually aroused by wearing female clothing to the point they have erections…..yet it’s not criminalised in public …. I think the whole premise that men can get their kicks with no push back from anyone else needs to be robustly challenged. Why are we letting them exhibit their kink in front of children?

I think as women we need to perhaps be far more assertive in demanding a basic level of common decency.

I agree, any other new cult that required children to take drugs & have surgery would be banned.

Trans identities and transitioning can only exist in the content of a society that agrees certain behaviours, clothes, preferences, activities or character traits are "correctly" more appropriate for one sex than the other.

While that may be the case today, it is generally now seen as a regressive and sexist situation that society, or at least the aspirational version of society that we chose to encode in law and civil discourse even if not always reflected in the actual day to day behaviour and expectations of many people, is working to rectify.

So unless society actively wants to encode sexist tropes into its acceptable self, society cannot condone trans identities and transitioning because it is imposssible to accept these things as reasonable and meaningful unless one also accepts the sexist beliefs that preceed and underpin them.

This may have been posted on here before, as it was written last year, but I thought it was a really good article: https://x.com/psychgirl211/status/1808825717204922755?s=46&t=X5IvnzbB1RShesDkx_0lAw

Wow! That is such a good article. So called "gender dysphoria" does not exist & western society is being swept up in mass hysteria pandering to the "trans" cult similar to the mass hysteria in Salem 400 years ago. We shouldn't treat a psychiatric problem with surgery.

I am not saying that people who think they have Gender Dysphoria are not feeling something. Their unhappiness and distress is often real. But this is being ascribed to the wrong cause. A calamitous and ruinous misattribution is being made. Namely that there is a mismatch between a person’s presumed gender identity and their supposedly incongruent physical body. Thus we are left with the, ‘born in the wrong body’ trope.

I posit instead that Gender Dysphoria belongs in the family of anxiety disorders and should be renamed ‘Body Anxiety Disorder’ (BAD). Psychologists are well able to treat anxiety disorders through talking therapy and behavioural modification. Treatment for BAD would be no different than standard psychotherapy for depression, or anxiety or relationship problems.

Yes , that is disgusting.