At first I cheered, then I got angry at the years of bullying and misinformation women have been subjected to

[IwantToRetire]

The Supreme Court has said the word sex in the EA means biology - fantastic! Credit due to FWS for persisting.

But why did we need a court to say this?

Because TRAs have spent years spreading misleading information.

So then you have to ask why, for instance, was Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre able to advertise a vacancy as being under the Single Sex Exemptions but appointed a man who self identified as a woman.

None of the institutions in Scotland did anything to tell them they were breaking the law. Not funders, not politicians, not charity overseers - not even the organisation representing Rape Crisis Centres in Scotland.

Is this a specifically Scottish problem? In other parts of the UK posts advertised using the SSE no other women's service provider has done this. (As far as we know). Some women's service providers only offer SS services, some offer SS Services and also trans services, which shows they know the law. And advertise accordingly ie whether SSE or transinclusive.

When and who is going to investigate how those with power colluded to undermine the meaning of the SSE. And why Stonewall law was allowed or even promoted.

And we know the poison of the misinformation has spread particularly in more social, informal settings across the UK, and even the right of lesbians to be lesbian ie same SEX attracted.

But the added bonus of today's ruling is that with the judgement that sex is biological then the instance that the case was first started about, eg representation on boards, means companies can not include trans women to improve a companies SEX equality achievements.

And also now women's sport, women's changing rooms, women's toilets, women's (Ladies?) pond, and .... are going to mean SEX based.

So as I know there are many other threads celebrating the FWS victory today, just wanted to ask how is it possible that so many people and institutions were so willing to accept the misrepresentation that women's rights were subservient to trans rights.

And could this happen again?

And add the unions to this list too 🤬

Edit: typo

Thank you for this thread OP. I agree. It’s a broadly good outcome - for now. Long term, we have to repeal the GRA and PC of GR. But the sheer amount of vitriol we’ve had to endure. The job losses. The capture of almost every public and private sector organisation. The near-total erosion of safeguarding of children and vulnerable adults…this can’t be glossed over. People have to be held to account.

“This isn’t over yet”, as some wise women sung just earlier today.

Completely fucking nuts.

It's like a collective madness took over. And the institutions that SHOULD have stood up for truth and reality just...didnt. The police, journalists calling violent men women, the fucking judiciary . And worst of all the NHS, where biological sex matters more than anywhere else! I'd love to see a public inquiry into how this all happened.

And, don't EVER forget the politicians...

Yes a lot to be angry about.

Workplaces that define lesbians as same sex or gender attracted, and being scared of speaking out to try to correct this, and then feeling ashamed of being afraid to challenge openly.

That Stonewall Law was allowed to become seen as being right, and this spreading and being cut and pasted to private and public workplaces alike.

That the Labour Party weasel worded single sex into “safe spaces for women” - why was that???

Just 3 off the top of my head thoughts - there’s built up and justified anger, unsurprisingly really.

I'm curious. What happens to organisations like Stonewall who have been giving advice that's inconsistent with the law?

Public, private and charitable sector organisations paid lots of money to Stonewall to make sure they were inclusive and had the right policies in place.

Now the organisations that followed Stonewall advice may face lawsuits and massive settlements. Would that make Stonewall liable for their costs?

I asked this question on another thread today. I hope that Stonewall face the consequences of this. Those consequences would be financially ruinous for them. Not just the lawsuits but all the other remedial actions that will be needed in hundreds of organisations across the country. Buildings have gone up across my university's campus that have facilities that are illegal thanks to Stonewall. It's going to cost an awful lot of money to turn those fake women's (and men's) toilets into the unisex toilets they actually are, so that they are compliant with HSE regulations.

Fuck yes.

And I'll add -

Shona Robison, Kirsty Blackman and the other foul SNP MSP's
Patrick Harvie, Lorna Slater, fucking Meep and the rest of the horrendous Scottish Grens
Alex Cole - Hamilton and the rest of the Scottish Lib Dems.
The National newspaper (pricks they are)

Oh, the list just goes on and on

So glad I’ve found this thread. This is exactly how I’m feeling. What next? Write to MPs and institutions mentioned here to ask what they will do to ensure they are compliant with the EA?

I’ve not been on MN for a while but I’ve been doing what I can elsewhere (extremely tiny in comparison to the numerous sheroes). I remember posters used to say HEEEEEEEAVE at what felt like continuous knock backs. I must confess, I was extremely pessimistic about what to expect from today’s ruling. I feel we (I) must follow up on this to ensure women’s rights are protected. Institutions have acted outside of the law for years at the expense of women, we must ensure that they follow the clarification the judges have provided.

In my OP I talked about all the institutions etc., who should have followed the law as published by Parliament, not the law of some money hustling who else can we get under our umbrella to help pay for our jobs.

But obviously the saddest part is those who infiltrated or "cuckooed" genuine women's groups to then use the group's status to permeate their TRA campaign.

And whose influence I suspect is still keeping other groups silent.

Remember that meeting some years ago when a lone woman challenged Nicola Sturgeon and no one in the audience (of members of women's groups) stood up for her, and slow clapped her out of the meeting.

And no doubt, not seen by us, many individual women have tried to challenge the trans narrative, but have been silenced or lost their jobs.

But in terms of responsibility, those in positions of power who failed to act when it was clear that the guidance in the EA from the SSE was not being followed, are to blame.

The could so easily, right at the start said, this is the law and you should follow it.

Don't forget Kirsten Oswald, Kaukab Stewart and Alison Thewliss posing with that "decapitate TERFs" sign.

And why did Scottish police make no effort to arrest that person? If any other group were subject to incitement, I'm sure the police wouldn't have been so lax.

And the misinformation is still happening, even today of all days. Just look at some of the crazy coverage from different broadcasters! So many sly, crooked journalists abound.

Yes!
The coverage has driven me back to a place I thought I would I would never return.
Twitter.
The unalloyed joy of watching politicians tweet that that they have ALWAYS supported this, and have hundreds of replies calling them out, often with recordings of them saying the opposite, is wonderful.
Anas Sarwar, Harriet Harman and Bridget Phillipson are having their metaphorical arses handed to them on a plate at the moment. The insufferable Stella Creasey has made a statement saying that we should make it clear that we support trans rights, like the Head Girl she is. She's too cowardly to allow replies, but is still attracting adverse comments.
In my heart I know that Twitter is a Bad Thing, but, in these circumstances, with official media sources not doing their job, I'm very pleased it's around.

Even the Economist has closed comments on its latest Instagram post!!! FFS Let women speak!

It's amazing hearing the misogyny and lack of understanding from many journalists. John Sopel on the News Agents said twice that this only affects a small number of people. 51% of the population isn't small...

It is very sad for politicians that we have all the receipts. All of them. The lot.

As I remember when it came to it in court - was it Allison Bailey's case? - Stonewall explained that if their client chose not to check that what they'd said was right, it was nothing to do with them.

i think you raise valid points in the OP. I think the answer is that there are specific issues in Scotland to do with the relatively small size of the country and the networks of people in power, and that lobby groups can gain disproportionate influence and there are no checks and balances on this. As the judgement notes, and I am only up to para 175, it is the case that funding became also tied to accepting that gender reassignment or what was de facto self-ID meant that one became for all purposes a member of the other sex, obfuscated by the language of gender. However this explanation only goes so far, as other larger countries with more robust political systems have also gone down this track. So one would need to look at all the reasons laid out at length in many threads over time on here as to why the self-ID position gained traction.

That it took at least ten years, with women losing their jobs, and giving their money, and facing violence, being arrested and so on, to get to this point is an indictment on civil society. The overreach of the state in policing this in the U.K. more widely was considerable. And yes, I do think anger is a justifiable response because the parallels with coercive control in the intimate space are considerable. One of the things I noted in the judgement was that the effect of this issue was that many organisations and institutions had ceased to even try to offer single sex spaces or provisions. That means, for example in my own workplace, female mentoring programmes no longer run, despite the known barriers which women face to promotion. It means that the breastfeeding space was turned into a gender neutral toilet. Etc. This will have affected women’s progression as well as their safety and comfort. And all that needs to unravelled and rebuilt, if it can be, and it will come too late for the many women already affected.

but yes again, massive thanks and gratitude that we are at this place and that women did challenge this in multiple ways, how ever large and small. But that we got here in the first place that it was necessary? Fuck, that’s chilling. And it’s good that sometimes words like chilling are used in the judgement.

The endless young women sobbing on social media about the outcome. Declaring terfs truly evil and shouting about trans women being women was so depressing.
I feel intense joy at this outcome and rage at the stupidity that got us here.

We all need to write to our MPs with a collated list of every person and organisation that encouraged and supported this travesty. Starting with Denton's document, and listing everyone on this thread. I am going to make a start today.
I am very grateful for this thread and hope it will be a comprehensive source document.
They all broke the law and should be held accountable.
Ignorance is no defence.
The public money wasted and the harm done to women and children is just shocking.

just wanted to ask how is it possible that so many people and institutions were so willing to accept the misrepresentation that women's rights were subservient to trans rights.

Simple isn’t it, really? Men.

Germaine Greer called it many years ago "Women have very little idea of how much men hate them"

Edited to add: Yes the trans maidens are annoying but the men’s movement doesn’t need them. They’re just accoutrements for them. Funny that.

I have found myself in the same position of joy mixed with anger, but from another point of view.

I keep seeing posts that the trans haters have won. It enrages me that people think this is about hating transwomen. It is about protecting biological female spaces, that is all.

Tgis has made me so emotional. Relief but also anger at how much gaslighting we’ve endured. All the posters who would try to squash women speaking.

I was listening to the news and the equalities commission is working quickly to work out what it means for services. That’s momentous.

That only happened because FWS fought. Politicians delivered only lies. Bar a couple such as KB who tried but got the usual media / left push back.

So FWS and Sex Matters etc have effected the biggest change we’ve seen for a while.

And then I think this could have gone the other way and imagine then.

Well done to those rejoicing women, it’ll stay with me what you’ve done.

Sorry, pedant's corner time, but didn't Andrea Dworkin say it?
Germaine Greer called it many years ago "Women have very little idea of how much men hate them

Ah that would be satisfying to see - I left Twitter a while ago and am on Bluesky, where liberal soft-brained groupthink is the order of the day on this issue. (And I am a lefty myself, hence leaving Twitter) People ( -women!😥) in my sector I follow, news accounts, all "shocked", many making incomprehensible points about the judge "telling people what their gender is" (?!?! - have you read even the press release?) or saying what an awfully sad day for trans people and how "they shouldn't have to be facing this). It's so depressing, brains apparently fully disengaged.

But also the misogyny, and the conviction that being gender critical means someone is actively seeking some kind of bloody massacre of trans people.

Absolute props to the exceptional Helen Lewis and Sonia Sodha who are prepared to be present and clear on the platform about their reality-based beliefs, despite knowing they will be subjected to a torrent of pink and blue shit.

To be fair, there are other gc voices coming to their support - just none in my professional circle. 😬😬