Women's rights general conversations - Thread 10

[Kucinghitam]

Continuation of Thread 9.

There is so much excellent information and so many active discussions on FWR that I wondered if it would be useful to have a thread to sort of "cross-fertilise" between them - airing little thoughts or vignettes that wouldn't themselves merit their own thread, to highlight other posts/threads of particular interest or to point to notable developments on fast-moving threads so that casual observers know where to look.

(For example, "the X thread has meandered onto a fascinating discussion of Y" or "Poster P's amazing analysis on thread Z might have relevance to the scenario in thread W" or "Has anybody noticed this recurring theme that keeps coming up??" or even "Random bloke asked me to smile while I was choosing onions in the supermarket, grr"- that sort of thing).

The UK needs a PPSN system. The PPSN does not change after a gender change.

services.mywelfare.ie/en/topics/identity-services/personal-public-service-pps-number/

Do the sacred caste get a new NI number? We should never have allowed chages to birth certificates, passports, etc. It's madness, and a complete invitation to crime and fraud.

Sometimes you have to question yourself. I read about the decriminalisation of abortion, and thought, yes, that's a good and humane thing, which I should support. And then I read DocStock on the topic, who has given the matter some serious thought obviously, and she is much less keen. And I have to say, she has a point. And I very much share her misgivings about the assisted dying Bill as well. So has she got a point about abortion? It strikes me that the "Don't worry, this legislation will only affect a tiny number of people" argument is one we've heard before... What is surely clear is that we've seen recently legislation rushed through the House without proper debate and oversight, which has caused problems. We shouldn't be repeating the error.

https://unherd.com/2025/06/when-did-our-mps-form-a-death-cult/?tl_inbound=1&tl_groups[0]=18743&tl_period_type=3

I think any woman who terminates her own pregnancy after 24 weeks needs help rather than a criminal prosecution. Any physician assisting her will still be subject to prosecution.

As it stands, termination up to delivery is legal in certain circumstances, and has been legal since 1967.

There has been a very worrying trend in prosecuting women in the last decade for this, when prior to that, prosecutions under the Offences Against the Person Act 1866 could be numbered on the fingers of one hand in 150 years. It was the right decision to make.

With respect to the Assisted Dying Bill, I have witnessed painful deaths that we would not tolerate in animals. It is compassionate to allow people to decide to die and help them. There are plenty of safeguards, and I am glad that I will have the choice to end my life before any suffering becomes unbearable, if that is what my end will be.

I agree with Stock on the current version of the assisted dying bill, despite supporting the principle of assisted dying (see relevant thread).

OTOH I broadly disagree with her on the decriminalisation of abortion, although I can see her points and her reasons for caution.

See, I didn't agree with decriminalising abortion. If it's that easy to get abortion pills without much oversight then I find that worrying.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cje0p1dlzleo

(Although agree that a woman giving herself an abortion over 24 weeks probably needs help.)

The woman who got abortion pills when she was 26 weeks pregnant must have known she was over ten weeks though? She only went to the hospital the day after, which I found a bit disturbing. I know it was back during lockdown, so not much face to face contact with midwives etc.

Speaking from my own experience once I knew I was past the point of a chemical induced abortion the idea of a surgical one made me feel ill, and there was no way I'd have gone through with one unless my baby was going to suffer after being born.

I do wonder how much my views have been tempered by becoming a mother, my own beliefs about life and death and being in a church for 11 years, that although are pro life are more liberal than a lot of other churches in that regard (abortion in cases of rape, the mother's life is at risk or the baby isn't going to survive are 'allowed', but it's not an automatic yes, that's fine. We're told we need to talk to our bishop and pray about it. I'd made up my mind already before my 20 week scan, but all was well.)

One of my friends had an abortion years ago for what I thought were valid reasons, although my ex-H mithered about it. She's still with the same bloke (and in a civil partnership) and has two children now, but she wanted to wait until she was ready for children.

The woman who took pills for a late abortion didn't realise how far along she was and was utterly distressed when the foetus was delivered. At that point she should have had medical care and emotional support, not been handcuffed and taken to a police station while still bleeding very heavily. Even then, it should never have got to court.

The decriminalisation is only for the woman concerned. Abortion post-24 weeks has not been decriminalised for anyone else involved.

Given that fewer than 10 women have ever been prosecuted in the 150 years since the legislation was passed, I don't see how a prosecution is suddenly in the public interest when it hasn't been for so long.

I appreciate different people have different views, particularly those who have religious beliefs, but we need to be treating women with compassion not punishment.

It was the perfect storm of the availability of abortion pills and the partial collapse of the nhs during Covid, I think. The response was simply inhumane. It showed up that the laws and their application weren’t fit for purpose.

One of my friends had an abortion years ago for what I thought were valid reasons, although my ex-H mithered about it.

It's not for you to judge the validity of her reasons, and none of your exH's business. Why the fuck did he think he got a say?

This made me really laugh - who knew wims could be so effective at organising to defend their rights?!

https://billieburton.medium.com/this-is-why-terfs-win-8d2d0f06b089

While Mumsnet is a truly terrible place for a transgender person to dwell, it is often informative. It could be seen as a useful front-page of what is happening in the gender-critical world, and what issues they see as important.

While I have a much longer article examining why TERF activism is winning and what trans activism can do better in the works, I want to concisely share a perfect example of why they are winning.

Following the Peggie v NHS Fife tribunal, Gender-Critical activists identified the potential value of collecting and auditing existing NHS policy and paperwork related to the Equality Act following the Supreme Court Ruling, referred to as ‘keeping the receipts’. They believed they would soon be deleted. According to Mumsnet, their theory is that there were ‘no single sex spaces for NHS staff or patients in the entire country before that date, having all been removed by stealth’. This presumably would support a future effort by the likes of Sex Matters or the new JK Rowling Women’s Fund to take the NHS to court for what may well be a messy future court case that holds nothing good for trans people.

The rest is equally entertaining

Came across this

Switzerland player speaks out after national team loses 7-1 to U15 boys side days before Women's Euros https://share.google/nEJr1hPI2NZi9l0OU

I heard that they tried to hush the drubbing up. They made one of the boys delete something he had posted on tiktok.

What is the story here, though? It's been proved before that women's teams can be beaten by teenage boys. That's just how it is, and actually only demonstrates how women's football should be kept separate from men. But if the Swiss team feel it will help their preparation to play againt boys, surely that's fine too?

Certainly no shame to the women's team. Just a little more ammo against the folx who still insist there's no male advantage.

I haven’t seen a thread on this so will put it here. Interview with Yehudis Fletcher on her book Chutzpah! The relevance is that in the interview Yehudis goes into considerable detail as to how she found help via the wisdom of Mumsnet. From about 44 min in, but the whole programme is pretty good and worth a listen.

Clare also talks to LGBTQ+ trailblazer Yehudis Fletcher, whose memoir Chutzpah! opens with Yehudis, aged six, observing the sabbath with her orthodox Jewish family and all her unanswered questions about the world and her place in it. By age 16, she had been silenced, abused and lost within the care system. By 20, she had been married twice. By 25, she had three children. At 26, she found her voice and stands up in court against her abuser. And at 31, she fell in love for the first time.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m002dzy8

Yes. The result may have shocked some people who don't follow football, but the great thing is that it led to an official statement that there is a scientific difference between men and women when it comes to sport.

A brilliant, driven, woman athlete with all the best technical support has just failed to be the first woman to run a four-minute mile, more than 70 years after Roger Bannister became the first man to achieve that.

edition.cnn.com/2025/06/26/sport/faith-kipyegon-four-minute-mile-running-nike-spt

TRSOH: "Silly cows should just try harder"

If she was driven, did she have the car in the right gear?

I think it's a heck of an achievement.

This made me smile.

Trying again....

“Lia” Thomas is no longer going to hold fraudulent swimming titles and records.

One of Thomas’ former teammates, Paula Scanlan, testified before Congress that she and her teammates were “offered psychological services to attempt to re-educate us to become comfortable with the idea of undressing in front of a male.”

On April 28, OCR concluded in its investigation that UPenn violated Title IX. OCR issued a proposed Resolution Agreement to voluntarily resolve its Title IX violations or risk referral to the U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ) for enforcement proceedings, which UPenn signed today.

http://www.ed.gov/about/news/press-release/us-department-of-education-announces-university-of-pennsylvania-has-entered-resolution-agreement-resolve-its-title-ix-violations

What a world we live in, that it takes a Trump adminstration to force this.

“offered psychological services to attempt to re-educate us to become comfortable with the idea of undressing in front of a male.”

This is yet another of those 'WTF have I just read' things that I keep thinking in relation to this bonkers ideology.

Dystopian.

Story in the Guardian today, featuring a 'Famous Man'. Since the piece says the identity of the person is so well-known, I don't quite understand why they were so coy. But well done to Jenny for getting through all that. I remember the film quite well.

www.theguardian.com/society/2025/jul/05/jenny-evans-sexually-assaulted-celebrity-my-quest-for-justice-changed-my-life?CMP=fb_gu&utm_medium=Social_img&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1751715844