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Original poster

English Blackball Pool Federation

805 replies

Signalbox · 06/04/2025 08:40

The hearing is scheduled for 7th-11th April at Canterbury County Court.

Tribunal Tweets will be following the case…

Live tweeting sessions Abbreviations
J - His Honour Judge Parker
HH - Harriet Haynes, claimant
RW - Robin White, claimant’s barrister
CC - Colman Coyle, claimant's solicitor
EBPF - English Blackball Pool Federation
PT - Paul Thomson, defendant
AG - Anna Goodwin, defendant
SC - Sarah Crowther KC, defendants’ barristers, and
SS - Sapandeep Singh Maini-Thompson
JRL - JR Levins LLP, defendants’ solicitor
JG - James Goodwin, witness for defendant

The original thread has been deleted for “breaking Mumsnet guidelines”. Not sure why but possibly “misgendering” or possibly making it too easy to find the crowdfund @mumsnet it would be good if you could let us know so this thread can stay up. Do we have to pretend that the Claimant is female?

English Blackball Pool Federation
OP posts:
Thread gallery
28
ThatPithySheep · 08/04/2025 16:14

Is BH attending as a witness or just submitting a written statement? I hope attending as the evidence BH produced really needs proper examination

BeLemonNow · 08/04/2025 16:16

Sorry accidentally included GIF and now can't edit to delete.

ThatPithySheep · 08/04/2025 16:17

I did wonder @BeLemonNow - but obviously we all love you too

Original poster
Signalbox · 08/04/2025 16:22

BeLemonNow · 08/04/2025 16:12

I know this is a serious business, but I would like the lawyers and judge to now go down a "local pub" and start actually playing pool...I suspect that is not their usual haunt.

I really hope it isn't lost on some procedural fairness technicality. They had sound reasons for excluding trans women from the female competition.

Edited

Yes this is worrying me. I hope if it is lost on some procedural fairness issue they make it clear that EBPF are within their rights to keep the female category female.

OP posts:
afuckinggoat · 08/04/2025 16:29

Love you too @BeLemonNow

Datun · 08/04/2025 16:40

Cailleach1 · 08/04/2025 16:06

So, there are expert witnesses. Wonder what makes BH an expert in safety and fairness for women in sport. Not for the entitlement of males, but for women in their own sports.

Yes I hope the focus can be dragged off the men at some point, their reach, their hands, their height, and onto the women, and their physicality, lack of opportunity in a male dominated sport, etc.

Datun · 08/04/2025 16:44

I've just read the tribunal tweets substack, and I don't know what it's like in person, but it comes across as a massive fucking sledgehammer to crack a tiny little nut.

I hope the judge can see the 'strategic litigation' running through this like a stick of rock.

Seemed like a lot of trying to catch these poor volunteers out, when they're just doing their job, and they can see how unfair it is. Interesting how one of the reasons they were so diffident was through fear of being targeted for transphobia.

Totally justified by where they are now, of course.

Original poster
Signalbox · 08/04/2025 17:04

Datun · 08/04/2025 16:44

I've just read the tribunal tweets substack, and I don't know what it's like in person, but it comes across as a massive fucking sledgehammer to crack a tiny little nut.

I hope the judge can see the 'strategic litigation' running through this like a stick of rock.

Seemed like a lot of trying to catch these poor volunteers out, when they're just doing their job, and they can see how unfair it is. Interesting how one of the reasons they were so diffident was through fear of being targeted for transphobia.

Totally justified by where they are now, of course.

Edited

I've just read the tribunal tweets substack, and I don't know what it's like in person, but it comes across as a massive fucking sledgehammer to crack a tiny little nut.

That’s exactly what it feels like watching live. These aren’t people running a professional organisation with all the associated resources. They are just enthusiasts muddling through a novel situation that nobody has had to deal with before now. They had the balls to stand up for women and it would be tragic now if they were punished for some procedural failing.

OP posts:
Datun · 08/04/2025 18:10

They had the balls to stand up for women and it would be tragic now if they were punished for some procedural failing.

I really would. If they did, I hope they appeal.

The crowdfunder would go into the stratosphere.

Wouldn't surprise me if J. K. Rowling backed the entire thing.

SinnerBoy · 08/04/2025 18:14

What does Hamilton bring to the case? What does them know about pool and cue sports? Them has one badly designed study, with one participant, who is a cyclist, no longer permitted to compete in the women's category.

I hope that EBPF has a medico-scientific expert to shred Hamilton.

Datun · 08/04/2025 18:21

SinnerBoy · 08/04/2025 18:14

What does Hamilton bring to the case? What does them know about pool and cue sports? Them has one badly designed study, with one participant, who is a cyclist, no longer permitted to compete in the women's category.

I hope that EBPF has a medico-scientific expert to shred Hamilton.

I'm just so willing to be that their expert talks about men, and their apparent lack of advantage, but goes nowhere near women.

Only half the story, based on their hopelessly obsessive focus.

Original poster
Signalbox · 08/04/2025 18:24

SinnerBoy · 08/04/2025 18:14

What does Hamilton bring to the case? What does them know about pool and cue sports? Them has one badly designed study, with one participant, who is a cyclist, no longer permitted to compete in the women's category.

I hope that EBPF has a medico-scientific expert to shred Hamilton.

Apparently 4€ did a study which compared elite women with unfit men who call themselves women. I don’t know if that’s the extent of it.

The cyclist study was Joanne Harper.

Edit to remove sex based pronouns

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/olympics/2024/04/12/ioc-accused-new-low-funding-study-transgender-women/

Archive
https://archive.ph/9Bzh6

OP posts:
EastCoastDweller · 08/04/2025 18:26

There is a crowd funder for EPBF. There is a post on p5 (?) that tells you how to find it. I’ve donated.

Original poster
Signalbox · 08/04/2025 18:34

EastCoastDweller · 08/04/2025 18:26

There is a crowd funder for EPBF. There is a post on p5 (?) that tells you how to find it. I’ve donated.

Google…

Help us defend our female Blackball competitions from litigation.

OP posts:
BundleBoogie · 08/04/2025 18:45

Signalbox · 08/04/2025 13:53

Apparently Blair Hamilton is the expert witness for the Claimant.

Wow! In an ideal world the judge will have half a brain (a quarter might be sufficient) and be able to determine what an absolute bucket of tosh that ‘study’ by Hamilton is.

My mantra for now and ever is “the truth will out”. Attributed to Shakespeare and so true. We’ve all got eyes.

YellowRoom · 08/04/2025 18:52

Daffodils planted

moto748e · 08/04/2025 19:01

Dib dib dib.

SidewaysOtter · 08/04/2025 19:35

Apparently 4€ did a study which compared elite women with unfit men who call themselves women. I don’t know if that’s the extent of it.

If it is then he’s ignored basic principles of experiments which is to control for all factors except the one you’re examining. If you have biological sex, gender identity (in terms of what steps might have taken to achieve their desired state) AND fitness into the mix then how could he possibly know which one is the defining factor?

I do a physical sport and I dare say if I took on an unfit, untrained male twice my age etc etc then I dare say I could probably beat him. But if I was up against someone of my own level of fitness, age and training I’d be very unlikely to get anywhere.

JanesLittleGirl · 08/04/2025 21:08

Can I have a brief derail while things are quiet?

Am I the only person who reads the thread title as "English Blackpool Ball Federation"?

StellaAndCrow · 08/04/2025 23:39

Here's Lucy Clarke.

English Blackball Pool Federation
StellaAndCrow · 08/04/2025 23:46

BeLemonNow, I really do love all the woman on these threads - by being here you stop my head exploding. Knowing that you are all going through this and reading all this ridiculousness too keeps my blood pressure and makes me feel I'm not alone in screaming WTF???!!!???.

Thank you all.💕

Hermyknee · 08/04/2025 23:55

I want this trial to be recreated as a drama on BBC1.

StickItInTheFamilyAlbum · 09/04/2025 08:55

Hermyknee · 08/04/2025 23:55

I want this trial to be recreated as a drama on BBC1.

I would even be happy to see it in this format.

https://youtube.com/shorts/aPmKW-25_c0?

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