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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Message for all parents of kids in Scouts! (Ireland)

30 replies

Chariothorses · 28/03/2025 11:20

This post is to bring all mums' attention to the decision by Scouts to let male leaders supervise girls undressing, in bed etc if the men say they are women.

“The head of safeguarding, Steven Maclean, confirmed explicitly that Scouters would be counted as their chosen gender and that a transwoman would count as a female leader.”https://gript.ie/jmg-scouting-ireland-transgender/

No child who has experienced CSA, including by men who say they are trans, would ever feel safe in Scouts under this policy. On twitter the children of transitioners group have raised safeguarding concerns and recommended parents 'read CoTs' submission to the UK government 'self ID' consultation -esp. points 4 & 8'. link here:
https://childrenoftransitioners.org/2021/02/27/gra-inquiry-submission/

You can also find further relevant info here
https://childrenoftransitioners.org/2021/09/25/not-shutting-up/
and here
transcrimeuk.com/

EXCLUSIVE: Scouting Ireland embroiled in transgender row - Gript

“Scouting Ireland’s position is committed to proactively seeking equality of outcomes for all young people."

https://gript.ie/jmg-scouting-ireland-transgender

OP posts:
MrsOvertonsWindow · 28/03/2025 17:39

ThesebeautifulthingsthatIvegot · 28/03/2025 17:27

But that's not what OP told everyone.

No. If you read the article she linked it very clearly states that delegates at a safeguarding meeting were told that men claiming to be women must now be treated as women. It explained the impact on safeguarding single sex spaces:
"Scouters were told that, moving forward, Scouting Ireland would solely recognise individuals according to their “chosen” gender – ie, the sex by which they choose to identify. In practice this would mean that Scouting Ireland would consider an adult biologically male person who “identifies” as female to be the equivalent of an adult woman.
Where the issue arises, attendees told Gript, is where Scouting Ireland requires male and female adults to supervise children or to manage events.
For example, in the existing Scouting Ireland code of behaviour, there is a requirement on page 9 for “gender appropriate supervision” by Scouters of scouting groups. Further, on page 10, that requirement for “gender appropriate supervision” is specifically extended to “circumstances including changing rooms, sleeping areas, etc”."

I know that scouting, guides etc do a great job. It's just a shame that the leadership is so caught up in promoting gender ideology to the detriment of children - who should be the central concern.

Mielikki · 28/03/2025 17:45

letwomenexist · 28/03/2025 15:48

Mielikki Why don't you offer your suggestion for that situation instead of being confrontational to Allthegood names?
What would you do?

Edited

Nothing, because I don’t have a problem with scout leaders being male, female or a mix of the two.

ScaryM0nster · 28/03/2025 17:47

MrsOvertonsWindow · 28/03/2025 17:39

No. If you read the article she linked it very clearly states that delegates at a safeguarding meeting were told that men claiming to be women must now be treated as women. It explained the impact on safeguarding single sex spaces:
"Scouters were told that, moving forward, Scouting Ireland would solely recognise individuals according to their “chosen” gender – ie, the sex by which they choose to identify. In practice this would mean that Scouting Ireland would consider an adult biologically male person who “identifies” as female to be the equivalent of an adult woman.
Where the issue arises, attendees told Gript, is where Scouting Ireland requires male and female adults to supervise children or to manage events.
For example, in the existing Scouting Ireland code of behaviour, there is a requirement on page 9 for “gender appropriate supervision” by Scouters of scouting groups. Further, on page 10, that requirement for “gender appropriate supervision” is specifically extended to “circumstances including changing rooms, sleeping areas, etc”."

I know that scouting, guides etc do a great job. It's just a shame that the leadership is so caught up in promoting gender ideology to the detriment of children - who should be the central concern.

Scouting Ireland.

Which the OP fails to mention.
UK Scouting has a very different approach.

Globalwalker · 28/03/2025 17:50

DS is in Cubs and has been doing camping and sleepovers 3-4 times a year since Beavers. At all times the staff (of whatever gender they want to be called) sleep separately from the children, and the children get changed in the toilets or tents (whichever they prefer). I volunteer at the camps sometimes and the adults tents are well away from the childrens, and the adults also change in their own toilets.

Scouts is for 10.5 to 14 years so, additional needs aside, what child of this age would require an adult to be present when they are getting changed?

ScaryM0nster · 28/03/2025 17:56

Globalwalker · 28/03/2025 17:50

DS is in Cubs and has been doing camping and sleepovers 3-4 times a year since Beavers. At all times the staff (of whatever gender they want to be called) sleep separately from the children, and the children get changed in the toilets or tents (whichever they prefer). I volunteer at the camps sometimes and the adults tents are well away from the childrens, and the adults also change in their own toilets.

Scouts is for 10.5 to 14 years so, additional needs aside, what child of this age would require an adult to be present when they are getting changed?

Scouting and guiding organisations in different countries have very different rules.

UK is very clear on segregating sleeping and changing spaces for over and under 18s, and keen on separating between different youth age groups. Everyone has to have option for privacy for changing. Any further segregation beyond that is up to the youth, their parents and their leaders.

Whereas another country will have an absolute ban on male / female sharing sleeping or changing spaces (even if married!) and mandate that there’s an adult in each youth sleeping /changing area for supervision.

Makes international events challenging. The OP is referencing scouting Ireland.

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