Why do people believe TWAW?

[hurdigurdi]

I’ve been making a list (because I like lists) but also have been trying my hardest to see the other side of the argument, as I think that’s the best way to see if an argument stands up. I have to admit it’s extremely hard to do because after you have peaked, it is very difficult to imagine being unpeaked.

Anyhow, here is my list of reasons people MAY believe TWAW (or indeed TMAM) and feel free to correct or add to it:

Why do people think TWAW?
“Be kind” and “live and let live” mentality
Group think & lack of critical thinking
Brainwashing
Fear of being cancelled/shamed/confronted/assaulted/losing job or career
Lack of knowledge of basic biology, sexual reproduction and DSDs
Ignorance of the physical differences between men and women (height, strength, lung capacity, heart size, arm span, foot and hand size, pelvis shape and function, sex organs, gait, Adam’s apple etc)
Have never met a detrans person or heard their story
Have never seen the harm gender ‘affirming’ surgery has done (botched neovagina, phalloplasty, mastectomy)
Does not know the risks and effects of taking opposite sex hormones on the body long term
Have never been assaulted by a male or a TIM
Have never competed against a male or a TIM in sports
Have never been in prison with a TIM
Internalised homophobia
Feelings of inadequacy as a man
Autism
Over consumption of porn
Inability to admit being wrong
Have facilitated the transing of a child (and therefore almost impossible to admit any harm has been caused)
Trauma or loss (especially of a mother or intimate partner)

I haven’t decided anything - it’s not my choice, it’s theirs.

I argued about this with a senior member of Girlguiding who was also in the NHS professionally. She was a True Believer. Arguments that they were male and presented a risk to girls had no impact, she simply didn’t believe it. TWAW and that was all there was to it. Even taking the argument that ok, TWAW but don’t you think some men will pretend to be TW so they can get enhanced access to girls: she simply didn’t believe they would do this or that it was remotely a risk. GG safeguarding was bullet proof and no man would ever pretend to be a TW. In her mind it was a complete impossibility. As somebody once said, it was like arguing with a pigeon. I’m banned from following GG on all SM now as all I say when they post on Trans is that ‘humans can’t change sex’.

Thats a huge leap….just huge…massive

I had an argument with DH a long time ago after he'd done his dei training at work, when he said that I had to understand that it was just so hard for these people, that it was such a hard way for a woman to live.

I said but they're not women, they're men. They're just men. Maybe their life is hard, but they're still men. I could see the penny drop.

I couldn't get him to accept the sexual aspect of it until Upton.

"For example: Ready access to contraception. Legal abortion. Social acceptance of unmarried motherhood. Social support for single mothers. Free or affordable maternity healthcare, in fact any kind of modern healthcare at all. The right to an education and to work, so that you can support yourself and a child long term."

I agree that all this is taken for granted. Also growing up in a society where there is agreed acceptance that physical strength should not dictate social power. I think that is relatively recent and is what manosphere types mean when they say that society is feminised.

To be honest, even becoming an adult in the nineties, I think I was a 'first world younger person' who took equality for granted - it was only when I had children that I realised how reliant I was on rights that weren't needed by 50% of the population.

In contrast, I think for many men, their experience of being male really is limited to sexual attraction, the act of sex, social expectations and their ego.

Let's just say I'm not surprised...

Is it though?

@TheKeatingFive

No, I'm saying I don't want to see your bits flapping regardless of whether you're man, woman, or horse, and I'm hoping you don't want to see mine 🙃

"I don't want to see your bits flapping"

Seems just further evidence that it is you who has the 'weird obsession with random strangers' genitals.' You even speaking misogynistically about female genitalia.

Thank you again.

The Righteous just can't help but show themselves up. Makes sense I suppose, that being so gloriously Good, you would want the universe to be awestruck at your magnificence.

You even = you are even

Apologies for the typo

IMO they don't OP, especially the (straight) men who like to pretend they do. If men really thought TW were women they'd be dating them, or at least considering TW as part of their dating pool. But guess what they don't date TW or even consider it because straight men don't want to date other men.

TBH I'd have a lot more respect for all these straight men who bleat TWAW if they walked the walk and had a proper full on relationship with a TW, rather than just talking the talk.

It's like that guy on Twitter who claimed 'TWAW except when it comes to dating' without any irony 😂

Relationship Purposes Robin.

Having re-read BIL's most recent post on this issue, I also think that there's an element of weird misogyny or traditionalism - not sure of the word - whereby the idea of a man wearing a woman's clothes is SO outlandish, the only way to consider this acceptable is if you say the man is actually a woman. In his latest post he made th epoint that if we have such an issue with men in women's clothing we should ban it. But I don't have an issue with men in women's clothing. I couldnt' care less. And in fact, I personally have long held the view that men shouldn't be so actively discouraged from things like make up and skincare. Doesn't mean I think men are women if they wear some eyeliner!

For example: Ready access to contraception. Legal abortion. Social acceptance of unmarried motherhood. Social support for single mothers. Free or affordable maternity healthcare, in fact any kind of modern healthcare at all. The right to an education and to work, so that you can support yourself and a child long term.

Younger women do not realise how recently these rights were won.

When I left school in 1969 it was still common to see job adverts which advertised male and female pay rates for the same job. Women often couldn't get mortgages without a male sponsor, even when they were in secure work with good pensions, so could afford the repayments. Women were often not allowed to join the pension schemes, even if in full time work. Part timers - usually women - were automatically excluded from pension schemes even when full time women workers were allowed to join. Oxfordshire County Council, and no doubt others opened up their pension scheme to part timers in the early 90s.

The Abortion Act was not passed until 1967 and became law in 1968. Abortion was only decriminalised in 2019.

Just some examples....

@ MattCauthon keep seeing reference to BIL. Sorry but who is this?

Your post reminded me of growing up in the 1970s when men in women's clothes were simply transvestites and we all knew what they were and didn't give it much thought and certainly didn't reorganise society to accommodate them. How things have changed...read recently that 3% of 13-17 year olds in New York state are trans.

Ian McEwan knew

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fDNxfqktWxI

For a man, looking like a woman is a downgrade, because women are less than men. Therefore a man who wants to do it is rejected by other men.

And the men who do it are aroused by the the feeling of being degraded, which is part of its appeal.

Men in the 1960s wore their hair long, and wore flowery shirts. They still looked like men, (and a good many were still as misogynistic as their short haired, white shirted brothers.)

How on earth is "see your bits flapping" misogynistic!? Male genitals flap about too!

Unless you have witness the world's only completely immobile penis and testicles that defy the forces of movement.

All bits flap. I'm sick of anything and everything being described as misogynistic language, ironically when feminists are complaining about their language being police, here they are, policing everyone else's language.

I don’t know who BIL is either but in many ways I feel we have regressed.

back in the 70’s we had glam rock- men with long hair and make up. Then in the 80’s it was Marilyn, Boy George, Duran Duran, Adam Ant and the New Romantics with everything from eyeliner to blouse style shirts. Even The Cure and other alt. bands.

we all knew they were men, same as we knew Suzi Quattro in her leather trousers was a woman. All bloody gorgeous as well!

i remember all our parents being mildly shocked at Karma Chameleon. Boy or Girl? Gay man? Oh ok, and we all moved on.

I think things started to change back for the worse with “boy” and “girl” bands and music becoming a bit more international. Back to the short hair and boyish good looks and “Abercrombie and fitch” model types.

the music industry was one area where people experimented with looks and ideas. Now it’s all girls on stage in corsets and man bands. All the same.

@SailorSerena
Because the use of the word 'flap' is possibly deliberate and related to the slang for women's genitalia perhaps?

@Whycanineverthinkofone
Yes, that's very true. It's like the option of just being yourself, experimenting with your style, following trends, being different, crossing boundaries, etc has been hijacked by the whole trans issue and our culture has been homogenised as a result.

A friend has a very unhappy, ND teenage daughter who's struggled with lots of issues for the last few years - to no one's surprise, she's now announced she's trans. A few years back, she'd have been a tomboy, or a goth or a young lesbian or just a introverted, bookish sensitive soul. It's so sad.

In my experince no one who says TWAW really truly means it because there's always a line somewhere, whether it's them believing transwomen should not compete in female sports or that they would not sleep with them. If they genuinely believed they were women just like any other, those lines would not be drawn, right?

BIL is the poster's brother in law.

Exactly.

Also, love your username!