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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Scientists at Porton Down don't believe in biological sex!

80 replies

Kucinghitam · 22/03/2025 06:14

Article in the Times. Sorry I don't have a share token, only an archive link.

https://archive.is/5bCAD

As a scientist at Porton Down developing technology to secure Britain’s defences, Peter Wilkins never imagined he would be considered a threat because of a belief in biology.
But when he stated his gender-critical views and support for the concept of immutable sex, Wilkins was reported for his “ideology” and labelled by colleagues as transphobic, “sad and pathetic” and “a rubbish employee”.
An employment tribunal has found there was a “clear hostile animus” towards gender-critical beliefs at the top-secret Defence Science and Technology Laboratory (DSTL). It found that an intimidating atmosphere resulted in the harassment and discrimination of Wilkins, 43, who was forced to leave as a result.

What with the Nature, Cell, so many biology learned societies, (not even including "playing-at-being-science" magazines like New Scientist and SciAm) being captured, and now this, I really am beginning to believe that this ideology is a brain-eating mind virus.

OP posts:
spannasaurus · 22/07/2025 21:17

SionnachRuadh · 22/07/2025 21:13

I for one am disappointed that these judges don't refer to Lady Russell by her proper title.

I assume she can't use her title in a professional capacity because Lady is used as a title for judges

SionnachRuadh · 22/07/2025 21:20

spannasaurus · 22/07/2025 21:17

I assume she can't use her title in a professional capacity because Lady is used as a title for judges

Edited

That would be confusing, though I've dealt professionally with a couple of Lady Justices, and they're Dames when not wearing their judicial hat.

Sometimes I think the English system of titles is designed to trip up those of us who aren't native to it.

Apollo441 · 22/07/2025 21:28

So he won?

Theswiveleyeballsinthesky · 22/07/2025 21:32

Apollo441 · 22/07/2025 21:28

So he won?

Oh yes!

ErrolTheDragon · 22/07/2025 21:42

minnienono · 22/03/2025 10:52

All depends on what he was doing. I believe in biological sex but I also believe in treating people with dignity and respect, if people wish to be known by a different name and be called a different pronoun it doesn’t hurt me to respect their wishes. You cannot become the opposite sex to the one you were born but you can present as the opposite gender at work, colleagues should respect this and larger work places should have policies and facilities in place eg a gender neutral toilet for them to use so nobody else is uncomfortable, for small workplaces like mine just use the disabled loo!

Have you read the article? This debacle began with genderists not treating a woman scientist with dignity and respect, and he defended her. And then he was bullied, institutionally, for his beliefs (well… adhering to scientific reality but law protects ‘beliefs’). He was the one not being treated with ‘dignity and respect.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 22/07/2025 21:55

I'm glad he won and that judgment's hair raising about the extreme levels of trans extremism being enabled in the civil service by senior civil servants. The judgment's clear that their requirement to be politically impartial was being repeatedly breached.

Following the JR about the police breaching their requirement to be politically impartial by marching at Pride, the destructive evidence flooding out of the NHS Fife case showing the same, it's long overdue for the government to start insisting that the police, civil service and NHS start disciplining staff who are indulging in political activism during work time.

RedToothBrush · 22/07/2025 22:54

MrsOvertonsWindow · 22/07/2025 21:55

I'm glad he won and that judgment's hair raising about the extreme levels of trans extremism being enabled in the civil service by senior civil servants. The judgment's clear that their requirement to be politically impartial was being repeatedly breached.

Following the JR about the police breaching their requirement to be politically impartial by marching at Pride, the destructive evidence flooding out of the NHS Fife case showing the same, it's long overdue for the government to start insisting that the police, civil service and NHS start disciplining staff who are indulging in political activism during work time.

This.

It's appalling and massively harming the country.

Who has a better track record Lady Jane or Jolyon?

TempestTost · 22/07/2025 22:56

Taytoface · 22/03/2025 08:23

When do you think employers will learn? Staff networks are the bane of my life

We don't have staff networks where I live, but nothing I have read about them makes me want to have them.

GailBlancheViola · 22/07/2025 23:11

Following the JR about the police breaching their requirement to be politically impartial by marching at Pride, the destructive evidence flooding out of the NHS Fife case showing the same, it's long overdue for the government to start insisting that the police, civil service and NHS start disciplining staff who are indulging in political activism during work time.

It should come under Gross Misconduct.

GuevarasBeret · 23/07/2025 06:12

RedToothBrush · 22/07/2025 22:54

This.

It's appalling and massively harming the country.

Who has a better track record Lady Jane or Jolyon?

Lady Jane, has always said she is a Cab Rank barrister.
Apparently she will be putting forward the GC view in the EA/Defra case! I’m sure it will feel a lot easier for her to put forward a view that is at least cogent.

Jolyon… not so much

Theswiveleyeballsinthesky · 23/07/2025 07:13

Maya has shared their guidance for line managers on how to support LGBTQ+ staff (and bully everyone into line)

www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/line_managers_guide_to_supportin#incoming-3088859

Ereshkigalangcleg · 23/07/2025 08:09

GuevarasBeret · 23/07/2025 06:12

Lady Jane, has always said she is a Cab Rank barrister.
Apparently she will be putting forward the GC view in the EA/Defra case! I’m sure it will feel a lot easier for her to put forward a view that is at least cogent.

Jolyon… not so much

Or alternatively EA/DEFRA is planning to throw their GC staff under the bus.

GuevarasBeret · 23/07/2025 09:01

Ereshkigalangcleg · 23/07/2025 08:09

Or alternatively EA/DEFRA is planning to throw their GC staff under the bus.

Perhaps, and I am happy to stand corrected on this.

The constant factor is that the employers are her clients, and I’m going to say my gut feeling is that we will see a different side to her in that hearing. My understanding is that NC (perhaps with her Sex Matters hat on) is advising on the side.

Do we know who is presenting the TRA side? Our very own Bunglejuice?

Portakalkedi · 23/07/2025 09:53

While I agree with some of the pps views, eg people can dress how they like and give themselves a different name, I would go along with that, as with anyone else who changed their name. However, I would find it impossible to refer to that person by a pronoun which contradicts what I know to be their actual sex. That is compelled speech, and as such is very wrong. If I were in that situation I would have to just use the person's assumed name if I needed to refer to them in the third person, as nonsensical as that is - eg Tiffany said that Tiffany wished to .... etc'. I could also not refer to a singular person as 'they' as that again is compelled speech. A person's right to choose a different name does not trump my right to object to compelled speech.

ErrolTheDragon · 23/07/2025 09:58

Portakalkedi · 23/07/2025 09:53

While I agree with some of the pps views, eg people can dress how they like and give themselves a different name, I would go along with that, as with anyone else who changed their name. However, I would find it impossible to refer to that person by a pronoun which contradicts what I know to be their actual sex. That is compelled speech, and as such is very wrong. If I were in that situation I would have to just use the person's assumed name if I needed to refer to them in the third person, as nonsensical as that is - eg Tiffany said that Tiffany wished to .... etc'. I could also not refer to a singular person as 'they' as that again is compelled speech. A person's right to choose a different name does not trump my right to object to compelled speech.

Sorry ignore that I’m being overly tetchy this morning.

GuevarasBeret · 23/07/2025 11:45

Theswiveleyeballsinthesky · 23/07/2025 07:13

Maya has shared their guidance for line managers on how to support LGBTQ+ staff (and bully everyone into line)

www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/line_managers_guide_to_supportin#incoming-3088859

It has the Gender Unicorn. How fucking embarrassing. I would be mortified to go along with this nonsense.

lcakethereforeIam · 26/09/2025 10:20

Does anyone know on what grounds they're appealing? Googling isn't bringing up anything.

BraveSirRobinRanaway · 26/09/2025 10:34

lcakethereforeIam · 26/09/2025 10:20

Does anyone know on what grounds they're appealing? Googling isn't bringing up anything.

That we are all evil and they will stamp their feet and hold their breath until that is accepted by the court?

Kucinghitam · 26/09/2025 11:00

Goodness. They really are True Believers then!

OP posts:
KeepTalkingBeth · 26/09/2025 11:07

Like the OP says on the first page, true devotees will never learn.

I have followed quite a few tribunals now and sat agog at so many (mainly educated) people's mendacity and devotion to an irrational cause. During tribunal hearings very very few of the indoctrinated bullies in captured organisations showed any insight into their actions let alone remorse. They all looked like surly, spoilt children who will try and do the thing they've been grounded for as soon as you turn your back.

Is Kate Searle beginning to think that there might be a point to the supreme court ruling? Never. Have the pillocks at the Open University ever thought that it was perhaps unwise to put together a bullying letter against Jo Phoenix? Nah. Is Mridul Wadhwa accepting that perhaps he's not the right person to lead counselling services for raped women? Dream on

DSTL are appealing because they are convinced they are right and the new judge will surely get itHmm

I wish Peter Wilkins patience and fortitude

Elephant2981 · 26/09/2025 11:10

lcakethereforeIam · 26/09/2025 10:20

Does anyone know on what grounds they're appealing? Googling isn't bringing up anything.

If you're on LinkedIn you could always ask!

lcakethereforeIam · 26/09/2025 11:20
Scared Still Waiting GIF by Looney Tunes

Not on LinkedIn or any SM except MN. I'll just have to be patient.

JamieCannister · 26/09/2025 12:06

KeepTalkingBeth · 26/09/2025 11:07

Like the OP says on the first page, true devotees will never learn.

I have followed quite a few tribunals now and sat agog at so many (mainly educated) people's mendacity and devotion to an irrational cause. During tribunal hearings very very few of the indoctrinated bullies in captured organisations showed any insight into their actions let alone remorse. They all looked like surly, spoilt children who will try and do the thing they've been grounded for as soon as you turn your back.

Is Kate Searle beginning to think that there might be a point to the supreme court ruling? Never. Have the pillocks at the Open University ever thought that it was perhaps unwise to put together a bullying letter against Jo Phoenix? Nah. Is Mridul Wadhwa accepting that perhaps he's not the right person to lead counselling services for raped women? Dream on

DSTL are appealing because they are convinced they are right and the new judge will surely get itHmm

I wish Peter Wilkins patience and fortitude

Is Mridul Wadhwa accepting that perhaps he's not the right person to lead counselling services for raped women?

Do you have any evidence at all that he has not known from the moment the idea first entered his heade that what he was doing was deeply misogynistic, nasty and re-traumatizing? Do you have any evidence at all that harm to women was not his sole intention all along?

Anyone pushing this nonsense should be mocked, belittled and insulted as much as possible within the law. Shame these vindictive fools into acknowledging reality and baseci human rights for women and LGB

FlirtsWithRhinos · 26/09/2025 12:36

JamieCannister · 26/09/2025 12:06

Is Mridul Wadhwa accepting that perhaps he's not the right person to lead counselling services for raped women?

Do you have any evidence at all that he has not known from the moment the idea first entered his heade that what he was doing was deeply misogynistic, nasty and re-traumatizing? Do you have any evidence at all that harm to women was not his sole intention all along?

Anyone pushing this nonsense should be mocked, belittled and insulted as much as possible within the law. Shame these vindictive fools into acknowledging reality and baseci human rights for women and LGB

Happy Joel Mchale GIF by ABC Network

Once you've decided the unreasonable thing you want is good and right and demonised the people who object, hurting them becomes part of your crusade.