Supreme Court For Women Scotland

[Cismyfatarse]

The Supreme Court is about to tell us whether we are women

www.thetimes.com/article/6a59421a-6945-4121-9c02-44c5059e0602?shareToken=7e6c99a84676224be2c793794ffb6028

It looks like this is imminent. Article by Akua Reindorf. Haven't read it yet but here for anyone that wants to read it.

But what about the priests and the first born noblemen!!??

If a transman with a GRC becomes a man for all legal purposes then they lose access to abortion care and have no protection from discrimination based on pregnancy or maternity status. Fingers crossed sanity prevails 🤞

That's nuts!

I'm actually trying to figure out what benefits a GRC should bring to someone should it mean that a Transwoman can turn up at work in a dress & lippy so essentially exceptions on the dress codes that say Men aren't allowed makeup or earrings.

But for all other purposes they are male and should be treated as such

Yes if you followed the arguments in detail at the Supreme Court that if a GRC gives you the protection of the characteristic of sex, the very noticeable outcome is that all women lose be they lesbian straight or transgender.

So i cannot see how FWS could possibly lose.

You know the NHS would fix this overnight by making abortion care open to people or gestators.

Surely companies are itching for an opportunity to rewrite all maternity policies by expunging women and referring only to “pregnant people “ or “birthing bodies”.

@AshKeys this is really what has led to a lot of the issues. The SS carve outs are unworkable if „privacy“ is allowed to be used in this way.

Surely companies are itching for an opportunity to rewrite all maternity policies by expunging women and referring only to “pregnant people “ or “birthing bodies”.

They already have.

"with knobs on" 😆

I meant that 😂

Hat tip, then!

Actually the argument I recall from the Supreme Court re transmen with GRCs and abortion is that there are no restrictions on what they can legally do in the way of abortion - the Abortion Act is apparently written in terms of what a pregnant woman is/isn't allowed to do, and doesn't restrict pregnant men. That might be more scary for politicians than the fact that transmen (also) lose access to pregnancy and maternity protection!

Thanks for sharing @Cismyfatarse it's a powerful article. I had been optimistic about this case, if only because anything else would be lunacy, so I hope AK is doing a wee bit of scaremongering but if she's right it will be awful.

Thanks. Sorry. Mumsnet glitch means I can't post without quoting so am just reading until the gremlin gets zapped.

Would changing gender reassignment to gender expression work?

The Labour government must be absolutely dreading Parliament being asked to sort out the mess. There wont be a quick fix to the legislation that they can pass without a huge public fuss and public opinion is shifting away from TWAW so time is not on their side. Sandie Peggie's case attracted huge press and public attention and there are plenty of similar discrimination cases still working their way towards the courts. It wont just go away. All the opposition parties will smell blood.

I'm sure Labour would much rather blame the court for saying TWANW and then kick the issue into the long grass.

Feasibly a lot of actual discrimination against gender non conforming people would come under sexism and/or homophobia.

🤞🤞

No. Do you remember the Canadian teacher, possibly woodwork teacher. With the massive, like really huge, fake breasts. He was allowed to wear them because it was his 'gender expression'.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11235121/Canadian-high-school-says-ILLEGAL-criticize-trans-teacher-huge-prosthetic-breasts.html

This one.

As I understand it, the current PC protects both transitioners and detransitioners from discrimination if they need time off for medical appointments etc.

If it is removed and protection is belief or gender expression, I don't think this would provide the same protections.

For belief, detransitioners could miss out because many no longer believe that they have a gender identity. And gender expression wouldn't cover either transitioners or detransitioners for medical appointments. Also it might have the unintended consequence of letting Málaga Airport folk wear all sorts of weird stuff and claim protection under "expression".

Either keeping gender reassignment or putting under disability could work, but the latter would require gender dysphoria to be recognised as a mental illness. I would be happy to keep the PC of gender reassignment as is if sex in the EA is confirmed to mean biological sex, irrespective of GRC status. It'd be even better if the GRA was also repealed.

Ah yes of course I do remember that!

I don't really see why transitioners should have more rights to time off for medical appointments than anyone else. Wouldn't detransitioners be protected under disability given the long-term mental and physical effects of medical and surgical transition? Transitoners also, if they are suffering longterm mental health issues for which transition is proven to be the best treatment.

The less we treat transition or gender identity as a specially deserving case, the better for everyone in the long run.

This. Why should they have more rights to medical appointments than other people? It is not even as if these treatment have been shown to be beneficial to their mental health. Plus the whole problem with this protected characteristic is they claim indirect discrimination based on not being treated like the opposite sex. You can indirectly discriminate against someone if it is a proportionate way to achieve a legitimate aim (and if it is proportionate to exclude some men then it would be to exclude them all) but the whole idea of having to assess, plus all Stonewall law, means it is another way women’s rights are undermined.

‘Gender expression’ would be an absolute nightmare. People would turn up in all kinds of of furry and fetish wear. Even asking your employees to dress smart-casual would be out, let alone uniforms. Can’t you just imagine how school children would take it?

Either keeping gender reassignment or putting under disability could work, but the latter would require gender dysphoria to be recognised as a mental illness.

Absolutely in favour of that, where it involves medical elements under sight of doctors. The rest can be dealt with under belief, or "gender expression".

I do believe repealing the GRA in its current form is the most important thing.

Gender expression’ would be an absolute nightmare. People would turn up in all kinds of of furry and fetish wear. Even asking your employees to dress smart-casual would be out, let alone uniforms. Can’t you just imagine how school children would take it?

Yes I take your point there.