Can we stop a man coming to our women's group?

[AuthenticVoice]

Does anyone know what the UK law states about this?
It's a tiny local women's group, barely even regularly attended.
He's a middle aged bloke saying he identifies as female and wants she / her pronouns. The usual. He's also exceptionally creepy and acts out a lot in other ways.

Is it even legally possible for any women's spaces to refuse or ask such men to go somewhere else these days?

Our area is exceptionally well served with things for either men and / or trans people to join up with. I feel that it's a deliberate targeting. Ideas?

Sorry love, this is a women’s group.
but I’m a laydeee
that’s nice, but your fantasy is not my reality.

Why does your group reward the man who makes a bit of effort with his womaning but bars the man who doesn't conform to your standards of what a man should be doing to be womaning correctly.

That's very gatekeeperish of you. Almost like your trans ally status only kicks in when the man puts in a certain amount of effort, or maybe if the man has passing privilege as a woman. Surely your group was very transphobic when they barred the man who you deemed wasn't womaning well enough.

Do you think, then, that women - who have lived lives as females since birth - have no right to have a meeting group just for them? Do you not think that women have unique experiences they might want to discuss? I know that men do and they've made bloody sure of it throughout the centuries.

What about disabled people or people with a serious illness? Would you say that a group for cancer survivors should include people who have never had cancer? They may have thought they had it at some point - should they be allowed to join the group?

Why do you believe that women are not entitled to a group without men in it?

What do you think a man could have to offer to a support group for women's issues such as menopause?

Bor-ing. And as for inclusive more like frightened of being bullied into cancellation.

Honestly, everytime I see someone claiming that something is 'transphobic' when it's about stopping entitled men getting whatever they demand (access to menopause support groups, really?), I just hear the noise when adults are talking in the Peanuts cartoon.

'Wah, wah, wah, wah, wah'.

And surely, it's incredibly transphobic by TRA standards to claim that some men pretend to be women 'enough' and others don't.

What happened to acceptance without question - the basis of self id?

(Obviously I think that's bullshit but I'm curious as to how the 'inclusive' women square it to themselves)

You didn't say what the difference is, in your post

How do you know you're not being transphobic for the second man?

We actually have a trans woman in our group. No issues. She lives as a female in all ways.

A man tried to say he was a woman, but wasn't living as a woman other than wearing women's clothes sometimes.

We declined his entry and blocked him. There's a difference.

Yep. Separating out the "real trans" is transphobic. I hope the excluded one makes a huge fuss and it gets to court.

It is horribly unkind to gatekeeper transhood like that

"Lie back and cringe for England" is hilarious, and a very, very apt response to your well-turned suggestion!

@RareMaker

Transphobic? Yawn. 🥱

Hope op is making progress. Come back and update us op, we are all over-invested!

Close the group and start another one privately

Does this group need to be held in the community centre or can it be held in someone's house.

@RareMaker

We actually have a trans woman in our group. No issues. She lives as a female in all ways.

A man tried to say he was a woman, but wasn't living as a woman other than wearing women's clothes sometimes.
We declined his entry and blocked him

Genuine question: so your group discriminates on the basis of gender identity or expression.

Why do you think that is better, or more inclusive, or kinder, or less intrusive, that discriminating on the basis of sex?

This is exactly it. They have made the group uncomfortable with said behaviour. They are no longer welcome for this reason. Thats all you need.

I don't believe this is transphobia.

If a man has lived as a man for most of his life and tries to attend a woman's group after recently transitioning, what could they possibly get from that group when all their experiences up to that point have been as a person living as a man in a man's world? I can see that they might be able to learn about what some women have endured at the hands of some men; they might observe female behaviour as an aid to "becoming" more of a woman, but they would have nothing to contribute as they would not have had experiences similar to those of the women in the group.

I imagine that the main challenge facing a trans woman of this kind is the struggle of transitioning, which no woman in the group would be able to identify with because they were inculturated* into being female the moment they were born.

To talk of transphobia is too easy a dismissal of the complex and important concerns the women in the group might have.

*I'm not sure there is any such word, but I think you all know what I mean!

The usual pattern is that when a legimate and reasonable question is asked, that the poster never replies or engages. Simply says oh MN is so transphobic and walks off. No exploration of their position or their thinking.

same for @BellissimoGecko questions. It would be great if @RareMaker expanded on why a man in a dress is different from a man wearing trousers, but alas, these conversations rarely take place.

There's an all male club which has just voted to keep it male. Can't remember the name. It was in the news. Funnily enough they never seem to have problems of women barging in pretending to be men.

Just looked it up. It's the Savile club. The Guardian said this was down to "young fogeys."

Quite right! .
all for inclusion 99% of the time but I don’t want my train driver to be blind. I’m sure a blind person can pulls & push leavers and I’m sure they like trains and are keen and friendly ..
but the lack of sight is an issue.
its not mean - it’s not trivial. It’s not phobic

people are wonderful: but we are not the same and sometimes ( not always) a difference can matter.

men are not women and in a women’s group that’s a difference that can matter .

Just say that the group is for vagina owners only?!

Some suggested words to reply if he says “but I am a woman”.

You can say.

“I understand that there are some people who get upset when they are told that they are a man.

If you are one of these people I suggest that you avoid putting yourself in situations where people are forced to point out to you that they can see that you are a man.

This is a women only group. There are many groups and clubs that are for men and women”.

@AuthenticVoice what happened to this group? You can now not allow that person on the basis of biological sex group. That will stop the worry of the threats.

Are there any handmaids in the group? I attended a WEP meeting where two mouthy women turned up with posters and spreadsheets and diagrams to educate us on how TWAW.

If not, you could change the venue each time and message the group with the details as a top secret mission. Make it part of the experience of being in the group.