Can we stop a man coming to our women's group?

[AuthenticVoice]

Does anyone know what the UK law states about this?
It's a tiny local women's group, barely even regularly attended.
He's a middle aged bloke saying he identifies as female and wants she / her pronouns. The usual. He's also exceptionally creepy and acts out a lot in other ways.

Is it even legally possible for any women's spaces to refuse or ask such men to go somewhere else these days?

Our area is exceptionally well served with things for either men and / or trans people to join up with. I feel that it's a deliberate targeting. Ideas?

Contact Sex Matters and see if they can advise you: https://sex-matters.org/contact/

Yes you can. It’s how you draw up the rules. I think Brighton Sisters Salon also have advice, they did a talk at FILia about how they’ve done it.

Hopefully. Good luck.

Yes, you are allowed single sex exemptions re sex discrimination.

I don't know how you would enforce it though in practice, if he keeps on turning up and trying to enter.

Is it an option to hold it at a member's house for a few weeks?

A sexual assault survivor's group had to do that. Be warned, the trans identifying male turned up at the lady's house and called the police when she wouldn't let him in. The police turned up! She explained what was going on and then the officers told him there was no law that said he was entitled to enter her house.

How many of you are in the group? There's different routes open to you if under 25.

Yes, there's 'your rights' and 'asserting your rights', two very different things!
What about the direct and very friendly approach -

'Look [insert lady-name - in this case it may be worth the tooth-grinding] we set up this group for women who have always been women - we all went through girlhood and adolescence and all that kind of thing, and we want to keep this particular group where we can talk about our shared life experiences.
Your life experiences are different [insert placating remark about 'but very interesting' or something like that]

So could we please ask you to find a different group where you can share your special experiences, and we'll just continue as we were, a group for women who have only ever been girls or women ?
It would be really super if you could do that for us. Is that OK?'
[lie back and cringe for England🙄]

So he's being asked to leave for reasons of compatibility with the nature and aims of the group, he's been asked nicely, nobody has raised their voice or said anything nasty to him... fingers crossed he gets the message and doesn't make a fuss, but if he does, maybe you need to make it more of a social get together in each other's homes than A Group.

I can suggest that because I'm not a member of your group and therefore cannot be asked to be the one to actually say all that to Himself

Yes, you are allowed to have a group that is just for women. This is covered by the Equality Act. There is no self-ID in the UK so you can just tell him that it doesn't matter how he "identifies": he's a man and the group is for women.

And on a practical level, I think I'd be getting contact details for regular attendees and telling them you're holding the meeting somewhere else.

I'm cringing for you.

Yes you can.

Single sex provision is specifically allowed by the Equalities Act and specifically may exclude trans women if it is a proportionate means to achieve a legitimate aim. It's therefore perfectly legal to define anything where women benefit from it being single-sex as being for female people only regardless of gender identity.

You and the other women in this group have no obligation to provide a group that this person can join.

If you don't already have a written constitution for the group which sets out its structure, governance and purposes then sort one out quickly. It's fine to disband the unofficial unconstituted version and for the same people to re-form as an entity that has a defined purpose which doesn't include being an emotional prop from someone who wants to coopt you into their fantasies.

https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/sites/default/files/what-equality-law-means-for-your-association-club-or-society.docx

This maybe worth a read. As it says groups with under 25 people are not covered by equality law so no one can claim discrimination. Over 25 you can form an association based on one protected characteristic eg sex, religion, etc. The Supreme Court case last year is questioning whether the sex in this context means legal sex as in someone with a GRC or biological sex.

Change locations? New date and time?

This is so sad. Why would a reasonable person want to join a group when others don't want them there?

Is your group an easy sell on 'proportionate means to meet a legitimate aim' eg anything to do with male violence or women's biological issues? You can still exclude him from a book club but those type of issues are a lot clearer when you try to explain why.

If you can't get rid of him immediately make sure he knows you don't subscribe to his reality, no law against using his correct pronouns or kicking up a fuss if he follows you into the ladies.

My understanding (and IANAL) is that single-sex associations are treated differently in law to single-sex services. It might be that the result of the SC FWS case brings clarity to this question but at the moment it is not entirely clear in law whether or not a man with a GRC would count as a woman for the purpose of women's associations. In Australia the courts have just ruled that lesbians are not allowed to organise meet-ups without including men. Presumably that could happen here if the SC decision rules against women.

Tell him you now all identify as men so it's now an all male group and it's only for men so unfortunately he won't be welcome seeing as he is obviously a woman. I'm only half joking btw lol but I would love to see his face if that was said to him because what can he say to that lol. It's getting bloody ridiculous

If he's being creepy and acting out, I'd ask him to leave on the grounds of his behaviour. Then you can honestly say it is nothing to do with his gender, it's the inappropriate behaviour.

Absolutely this. Don't get embroiled in the whole trans debate, just tell him he's not welcome on grounds of his behaviour.

If it's your group you get to decide who attends.

You can easily just say 'You're not to attend in future' or even 'I think you're a prick so you're not welcome'. You don't need to explain why. You don't need to justify. It's your group.

If its joint run and everyone then same thing goes. But someone has to be the spokesperson.

Genius. Please do this.
I am in a lesbian craft group that had to move from Meet Up to an invitation-only WhatsApp group for arrangements, because of a sexually aggressive trans-identified male who insisted he be allowed to come and leer at people. It's ridiculous. We should have all identified as gay men.

I would tell the trans identifying man that you are all identifying as men on the particular Tuesday afternoon that you meet and so it wouldn't be appropriate for him to join
Or just keep it as a closed invitation only group?

A sexual assault survivor's group had to do that. Be warned, the trans identifying male turned up at the lady's house and called the police when she wouldn't let him in. The police turned up! She explained what was going on and then the officers told him there was no law that said he was entitled to enter her house.

That's fucking appalling. Not surprising, but appalling.

Is this doable OP? Hoping he will get bored and dind some other women to bully

Just arrange meetups elsewhere without the idiot.

'Taking one for the team'😉

My attitude is : What's your ultimate objective? What is the line of least resistance to achieve that objective? How can you snooker the opponent - with unctuous niceness if necessary - so their best option is to concede?

But I accept that others may feel that making a valid point about single sex spaces is as important as achieving the ultimate objective, and I accept that I dislike conflict😐