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Original poster

US executive order - Schools

131 replies

FlowchartRequired · 30/01/2025 09:35

Here we go, a new EO regarding schools.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/01/ending-radical-indoctrination-in-k-12-schooling/

"Ending Radical Indoctrination in K-12 Schooling
EXECUTIVE ORDER
January 29, 2025"

"Section 1. Purpose and Policy. Parents trust America’s schools to provide their children with a rigorous education and to instill a patriotic admiration for our incredible Nation and the values for which we stand.
In recent years, however, parents have witnessed schools indoctrinate their children in radical, anti-American ideologies while deliberately blocking parental oversight. Such an environment operates as an echo chamber, in which students are forced to accept these ideologies without question or critical examination. In many cases, innocent children are compelled to adopt identities as either victims or oppressors solely based on their skin color and other immutable characteristics. In other instances, young men and women are made to question whether they were born in the wrong body and whether to view their parents and their reality as enemies to be blamed. These practices not only erode critical thinking but also sow division, confusion, and distrust, which undermine the very foundations of personal identity and family unity."

OP posts:
SeaBaseAlpha · 30/01/2025 11:43

I'm sorry, but I can't understand why any of you think this is so good (and I am firmly GC).
"Parents trust America’s schools to provide their children with a rigorous education and to instill a patriotic admiration for our incredible Nation and the values for which we stand."

As a British person I agree it's very cringe, but this is very normal for America and always has been. There's nothing totalitarian about that. Even Disney World, now seemingly at war with the Republican party, has a flag retreat ceremony every evening.

And in fact, whilst I agree that blind faith in your country is not a good thing, I am also getting fed up with being made to feel guilty and embarrassed by the left about everything the UK does. If I am forced to choose one or the other I would rather have the positivity of patriotism than the po-faced apologists.

callmej · 30/01/2025 11:49

DeanElderberry · 30/01/2025 10:25

You see, I keep wondering was JD Vance there at at least some of the initial planning meetings. He knows from the inside what being dependent on the state education system is.

My money's on Musk. His lurch to the right seemed to start when his son transitioned, for which he has always blamed the school. For a long while, he's been an extremely vocal critic of the trans agenda, CRT, and [what he considers to be] an anti-American agenda. Reckon this might be him extracting his fee for helping Trump.

Runor · 30/01/2025 11:50

SporadicMincePieMuncher · 30/01/2025 11:00

I'm sorry, but I can't understand why any of you think this is so good (and I am firmly GC).

"Parents trust America’s schools to provide their children with a rigorous education and to instill a patriotic admiration for our incredible Nation and the values for which we stand."

Given who has just taken control and what they stand for it is fucking NUTS to see this sentence as anything other than ominous at best. It's wording I would expect to see come from Russian or Chinese governments.

Parents have witnessed schools indoctrinate their children in radical, anti-American ideologies while deliberately blocking parental oversight.

Much though I agree that a lot of what has gone on in schools around gender identity is akin to indoctrination and blocking parental oversights, there's the emphasis on American Ideologies again. It's a dystopian type of ominous reference to How Great America Could Be If Only You Would All Do And Think Like The State Requires You To, in the wider context of Trump's vision for America, in my opinion.

In many cases, innocent children are compelled to adopt identities as either victims or oppressors solely based on their skin color and other immutable characteristics.

Putting gender identity aside and focusing on skin colour for a moment, and through the filter of Trump politics another way of saying this would be "we don't want children to learn about how they might be being oppressed because of their race and we want them to shut up complaining about racism and just accept it".

In other instances, young men and women are made to question whether they were born in the wrong body

FWIW I have no problem with this bit, although "made to" would be better worded as "encouraged to".

These practices not only erode critical thinking but also sow division, confusion, and distrust, which undermine the very foundations of personal identity and family unity."

The irony of this statement coming from an administration that very obviously wants to erode critical thinking (and) also sow division, confusion, and distrust. Trumpian policies are about forcing conformity with extreme Republican ideals - which include sowing distrust and division against anything and anybody Not American, including those who are Not American Enough.

It's eerie as fuck in my view, not positive.

To those of you who agree with it and are based in the UK I am curious, are you generally left, or right leaning?

Edited

I’m left-leaning

As I understand it, kids in the US have always sworn allegiance to the stars & stripes, so I didn’t see the patriotism as being particularly controversial in the US

I also agree with OneAmberFinch that CRT theory just sows division. It’s hard for a white kid from a really disadvantaged background to see how their life is so much easier than Obama’s kids. I realise that is a simplification, but it’s not about CRT being taught with nuance to Masters students. In school it will necessarily be simplified

R053 · 30/01/2025 11:52

SporadicMincePieMuncher · 30/01/2025 11:00

I'm sorry, but I can't understand why any of you think this is so good (and I am firmly GC).

"Parents trust America’s schools to provide their children with a rigorous education and to instill a patriotic admiration for our incredible Nation and the values for which we stand."

Given who has just taken control and what they stand for it is fucking NUTS to see this sentence as anything other than ominous at best. It's wording I would expect to see come from Russian or Chinese governments.

Parents have witnessed schools indoctrinate their children in radical, anti-American ideologies while deliberately blocking parental oversight.

Much though I agree that a lot of what has gone on in schools around gender identity is akin to indoctrination and blocking parental oversights, there's the emphasis on American Ideologies again. It's a dystopian type of ominous reference to How Great America Could Be If Only You Would All Do And Think Like The State Requires You To, in the wider context of Trump's vision for America, in my opinion.

In many cases, innocent children are compelled to adopt identities as either victims or oppressors solely based on their skin color and other immutable characteristics.

Putting gender identity aside and focusing on skin colour for a moment, and through the filter of Trump politics another way of saying this would be "we don't want children to learn about how they might be being oppressed because of their race and we want them to shut up complaining about racism and just accept it".

In other instances, young men and women are made to question whether they were born in the wrong body

FWIW I have no problem with this bit, although "made to" would be better worded as "encouraged to".

These practices not only erode critical thinking but also sow division, confusion, and distrust, which undermine the very foundations of personal identity and family unity."

The irony of this statement coming from an administration that very obviously wants to erode critical thinking (and) also sow division, confusion, and distrust. Trumpian policies are about forcing conformity with extreme Republican ideals - which include sowing distrust and division against anything and anybody Not American, including those who are Not American Enough.

It's eerie as fuck in my view, not positive.

To those of you who agree with it and are based in the UK I am curious, are you generally left, or right leaning?

Edited

I agree with your post too. Well said.

AlisonDonut · 30/01/2025 12:07

What is wrong with being pro American when you live in America? Maybe people need to start being proud of themselves and where they came from instead of being ashamed and doing it down all the time?

DeanElderberry · 30/01/2025 12:16

Quite.

EasternStandard · 30/01/2025 12:19

SeaBaseAlpha · 30/01/2025 11:43

I'm sorry, but I can't understand why any of you think this is so good (and I am firmly GC).
"Parents trust America’s schools to provide their children with a rigorous education and to instill a patriotic admiration for our incredible Nation and the values for which we stand."

As a British person I agree it's very cringe, but this is very normal for America and always has been. There's nothing totalitarian about that. Even Disney World, now seemingly at war with the Republican party, has a flag retreat ceremony every evening.

And in fact, whilst I agree that blind faith in your country is not a good thing, I am also getting fed up with being made to feel guilty and embarrassed by the left about everything the UK does. If I am forced to choose one or the other I would rather have the positivity of patriotism than the po-faced apologists.

Yes the language might not fit with how we are in the U.K. but I'd take some positivity too

The rest sounds good

MrsOvertonsWindow · 30/01/2025 12:41

OolongTeaDrinker · 30/01/2025 11:18

I wonder how the trans captured labour politicians are viewing this? I know they've had their hands in their ears for years while transactivists run amok in all our services

I am no fan of the current Labour party, but they have been in government for less than a year so cannot shoulder all the blame for the current mess in education and public bodies.

Trump has clearly spent the past 4 years gathering a crack team of policy advisors, so far I am impressed, and I never thought I would say that about a Trump administration!

Show quote history

Completely agree that the Tories presided over all this for years, funding political lobby groups to work in schools and gaslight children. It was only latterly that they realised what they'd unleashed and started to reverse ferret

Peregrina · 30/01/2025 14:25

Hmmm. Are you aware that British schools have openly taught British values and taking pride in our country for years?
https://www.nga.org.uk/knowledge-centre/promoting-british-values-in-schools/

I agree. It's in FE classes for adults to. If anything I would say they weren't specific British values, but better classed as Judeo-Christian and didn't belong to one nation.

It partly made me decide not to return the following year to one class. I didn't want to sit through sessions on this piffle of 'British values'; I wanted to get on with learning what I had signed up for.

Promoting British values in schools | National Governance Association

How governing boards ensure that the legal duty to promote fundamental British values is being met

https://www.nga.org.uk/knowledge-centre/promoting-british-values-in-schools

user123212 · 30/01/2025 14:32

SporadicMincePieMuncher · 30/01/2025 11:00

I'm sorry, but I can't understand why any of you think this is so good (and I am firmly GC).

"Parents trust America’s schools to provide their children with a rigorous education and to instill a patriotic admiration for our incredible Nation and the values for which we stand."

Given who has just taken control and what they stand for it is fucking NUTS to see this sentence as anything other than ominous at best. It's wording I would expect to see come from Russian or Chinese governments.

Parents have witnessed schools indoctrinate their children in radical, anti-American ideologies while deliberately blocking parental oversight.

Much though I agree that a lot of what has gone on in schools around gender identity is akin to indoctrination and blocking parental oversights, there's the emphasis on American Ideologies again. It's a dystopian type of ominous reference to How Great America Could Be If Only You Would All Do And Think Like The State Requires You To, in the wider context of Trump's vision for America, in my opinion.

In many cases, innocent children are compelled to adopt identities as either victims or oppressors solely based on their skin color and other immutable characteristics.

Putting gender identity aside and focusing on skin colour for a moment, and through the filter of Trump politics another way of saying this would be "we don't want children to learn about how they might be being oppressed because of their race and we want them to shut up complaining about racism and just accept it".

In other instances, young men and women are made to question whether they were born in the wrong body

FWIW I have no problem with this bit, although "made to" would be better worded as "encouraged to".

These practices not only erode critical thinking but also sow division, confusion, and distrust, which undermine the very foundations of personal identity and family unity."

The irony of this statement coming from an administration that very obviously wants to erode critical thinking (and) also sow division, confusion, and distrust. Trumpian policies are about forcing conformity with extreme Republican ideals - which include sowing distrust and division against anything and anybody Not American, including those who are Not American Enough.

It's eerie as fuck in my view, not positive.

To those of you who agree with it and are based in the UK I am curious, are you generally left, or right leaning?

Edited

To be fair, this is American culture, not UK. It's a big country which differs quite a bit to a tiny island. They need something for social cohesion. This is why sports is such a big thing there. This is also very mild compared to what countries like China, Russia will say.

Of course, children shouldn't be compelled to adopt identities based on their skin colour. Why would you disagree with this?

I used to be left-leaning/Guardian reader before they lost their marbles.

Original poster
FlowchartRequired · 30/01/2025 14:44

'To those of you who agree with it and are based in the UK I am curious, are you generally left, or right leaning?'

If there is one thing that Gender Identity Ideology has taught me, it is that the overly simplistic 'Left=Good, Right=Bad' that some people (both online and IRL) have tried to push on me is just plain old wrong. I never really believed it, but I wouldn't push back as it was 'easier'. Now I know to always challenge this lazy thinking.

What I want more of is decent, honest people who are based in reality and who are brave enough to stand up for the truth and what is right.

I cannot express how disappointed I have been with so many people I know and also politicians over this. The cowardly handmaidens, allies and true believers alike. The medics who are in it for the money, the cred of being OTRSOH or whatever.

Stopping 'gender affirming care' for minors is the right thing to do, as is stopping teachers telling schoolchildren that they might be 'born in the wrong body' or socially transitioning them behind their parents' backs.

Anyone who stands up against this (however they can, and I do understand that many people are unable to do as much as they would like due to the threats and intimidation that TRAs dole out), whatever their political opinions, is right on this issue. We need to recognise this and applaud them.

OP posts:
Original poster
FlowchartRequired · 30/01/2025 14:45

Wemaybebetterstrangers · 30/01/2025 11:08

💯 clumsily separating primary school-aged children based on their skin colour. Despicable. The exact opposite of what MLK said and stood for.

-I look to a day when people will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character- MLK

Show quote history

I agree. Any step away from MLK's 'dream' is a step backwards.

OP posts:
GreenApplesRedApplesYellowApples · 30/01/2025 14:47

SporadicMincePieMuncher · 30/01/2025 11:00

I'm sorry, but I can't understand why any of you think this is so good (and I am firmly GC).

"Parents trust America’s schools to provide their children with a rigorous education and to instill a patriotic admiration for our incredible Nation and the values for which we stand."

Given who has just taken control and what they stand for it is fucking NUTS to see this sentence as anything other than ominous at best. It's wording I would expect to see come from Russian or Chinese governments.

Parents have witnessed schools indoctrinate their children in radical, anti-American ideologies while deliberately blocking parental oversight.

Much though I agree that a lot of what has gone on in schools around gender identity is akin to indoctrination and blocking parental oversights, there's the emphasis on American Ideologies again. It's a dystopian type of ominous reference to How Great America Could Be If Only You Would All Do And Think Like The State Requires You To, in the wider context of Trump's vision for America, in my opinion.

In many cases, innocent children are compelled to adopt identities as either victims or oppressors solely based on their skin color and other immutable characteristics.

Putting gender identity aside and focusing on skin colour for a moment, and through the filter of Trump politics another way of saying this would be "we don't want children to learn about how they might be being oppressed because of their race and we want them to shut up complaining about racism and just accept it".

In other instances, young men and women are made to question whether they were born in the wrong body

FWIW I have no problem with this bit, although "made to" would be better worded as "encouraged to".

These practices not only erode critical thinking but also sow division, confusion, and distrust, which undermine the very foundations of personal identity and family unity."

The irony of this statement coming from an administration that very obviously wants to erode critical thinking (and) also sow division, confusion, and distrust. Trumpian policies are about forcing conformity with extreme Republican ideals - which include sowing distrust and division against anything and anybody Not American, including those who are Not American Enough.

It's eerie as fuck in my view, not positive.

To those of you who agree with it and are based in the UK I am curious, are you generally left, or right leaning?

Edited

I think some in FWR have been fighting so hard against a frankly despicable, women hating ideology and are so desperate to see it curtailed that they no longer give a F about anything else nor can they allow themselves to see how giving blanket approval could backfire in the future. No other cause matters. No one else's oppression is of note.

It's the very definition of 'The enemy of my enemy is my friend'

user123212 · 30/01/2025 14:48

@SporadicMincePieMuncher Putting gender identity aside and focusing on skin colour for a moment, and through the filter of Trump politics another way of saying this would be "we don't want children to learn about how they might be being oppressed because of their race and we want them to shut up complaining about racism and just accept it".

I am an immigrant, and no, I don't want DC to learn about how he's supposedly being discriminated against due to this race, 1. because he isn't, 2. why would making him feel like a victim benefit him any? it will only "other" him 3. UK isn't America . I appreciate due to everyone's efforts and awareness that racism is minimal these days at least in UK

DeanElderberry · 30/01/2025 14:54

GreenApplesRedApplesYellowApples · 30/01/2025 14:47

I think some in FWR have been fighting so hard against a frankly despicable, women hating ideology and are so desperate to see it curtailed that they no longer give a F about anything else nor can they allow themselves to see how giving blanket approval could backfire in the future. No other cause matters. No one else's oppression is of note.

It's the very definition of 'The enemy of my enemy is my friend'

Show quote history

Some of them may, but I haven't noticed any. I think most people on this board are very much on the lookout for Trojan horses, cats in bags and Greeks bearing gifts. 'Fool me once' kinda thing.

DeanElderberry · 30/01/2025 14:55

Maybe I meant pigs in pokes rather than cats in bags but hey, deceptively shrouded animals. To be approached with caution.

IdaGlossop · 30/01/2025 14:57

Trump is a despicable human being - felon, misogynist, narcissist. Since he came to office, I have been impressed every day with something he has done and am struggling with myself as a result. (Long-time Labour voters but nolonger a party member.) It feels such a relief that someone in power is prepared to say 'There are two sexes, male and female', and make it seem so easy. Very emboldening for Farage. But Trump is creating chaos too, and it's early days.

GreenApplesRedApplesYellowApples · 30/01/2025 14:59

DeanElderberry · 30/01/2025 14:54

Some of them may, but I haven't noticed any. I think most people on this board are very much on the lookout for Trojan horses, cats in bags and Greeks bearing gifts. 'Fool me once' kinda thing.

Show quote history

Then you're blind.

Also can I ask if being taught about female oppression is also blithely 'being taught to be a victim' and 'adopting identities based on sex' or 'sowing anti-nationalist division between men and women' or is this branch of activism ring fenced somehow?

Greyskybluesky · 30/01/2025 15:01

No other cause matters. No one else's oppression is of note.
It's the very definition of 'The enemy of my enemy is my friend'

I'm not sure what the point of your post is @GreenApplesRedApplesYellowApples
Lots of posters have been very clear in pointing out that they do NOT think as simplistically as 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend'. Have you missed those?

You seem to be suggesting that women are unable to support other causes or care about other people's oppression as well as TRA issues. You are wrong.

Original poster
FlowchartRequired · 30/01/2025 15:07

The thing that is especially insane is how low the bar is now.

State biological reality.
Base policies where biological reality matters, on said biological reality.
Don't put children and vulnerable adults on the path to extreme body modification due to an ideology.

This is basic stuff. Yet, Kamala and the dems won't say these things.

As a non-American it has been eye-opening to watch from afar. Trump had the They/Them advert which had a big impact with US voters, and in response the dems got out a silver platter and gave Trump the presidency.

Was it hubris? Being unable to admit that they were OTWSOH on this issue? Idiocy?

OP posts:
AlisonDonut · 30/01/2025 15:09

GreenApplesRedApplesYellowApples · 30/01/2025 14:47

I think some in FWR have been fighting so hard against a frankly despicable, women hating ideology and are so desperate to see it curtailed that they no longer give a F about anything else nor can they allow themselves to see how giving blanket approval could backfire in the future. No other cause matters. No one else's oppression is of note.

It's the very definition of 'The enemy of my enemy is my friend'

Show quote history

I don't vote in the USA elections but several of my family do.

They don't even have this on their agenda.

Who the fuck do you think you are telling us that we think 'no other cause matters'? You know fuck all about any of us.

DeanElderberry · 30/01/2025 15:09

You seem to be living in fantasy @GreenApplesRedApplesYellowApples

I was never taught (in school or college) about female oppression, but I did experience sexual harassment on a regular basis from the age of 14. Is that what you mean by blithely 'being taught to be a victim' and 'adopting identities based on sex' or 'sowing anti-nationalist division between men and women' ?

cheezncrackers · 30/01/2025 15:13

FlowchartRequired · 30/01/2025 15:07

The thing that is especially insane is how low the bar is now.

State biological reality.
Base policies where biological reality matters, on said biological reality.
Don't put children and vulnerable adults on the path to extreme body modification due to an ideology.

This is basic stuff. Yet, Kamala and the dems won't say these things.

As a non-American it has been eye-opening to watch from afar. Trump had the They/Them advert which had a big impact with US voters, and in response the dems got out a silver platter and gave Trump the presidency.

Was it hubris? Being unable to admit that they were OTWSOH on this issue? Idiocy?

Edited

Crazy isn't it? But US schools have been taken over with this nonsense, particularly in liberal cities/states. All the worst gender woo you can imagine, critical race theory, stuff that if you read what's in the books that the kids learn from it would blow your mind. I'm actually hugely glad that Trump is dealing with this stuff and refuting it with very clear, unambiguous language. He has clearly got lawyers involved in the wording of his EOs on sex, gender and diversity issues, with the idea that they will be impossible to refute. Love him or hate him, he's doing some really good work (and I never thought I would say that in his first term!!)

DeanElderberry · 30/01/2025 15:18

DeanElderberry · 30/01/2025 15:09

You seem to be living in fantasy @GreenApplesRedApplesYellowApples

I was never taught (in school or college) about female oppression, but I did experience sexual harassment on a regular basis from the age of 14. Is that what you mean by blithely 'being taught to be a victim' and 'adopting identities based on sex' or 'sowing anti-nationalist division between men and women' ?

Dividing a school class randomly into pretend girls and pretend boys wouldn't have improved that (just given more opportunities for bullying. I wasn't harassed because I adopted an identity. I was harassed because I am female. And adult. A woman!

Wemaybebetterstrangers · 30/01/2025 15:25

Women

blithely 'being taught to be a victim'

Good god. Are you for real?

Myself and every single one of my female friends have experienced poor male behaviour at least one or several points in our lives.

Be that sexual assault, misogyny covert or overt, or any other economic, social or political inequality.

The last thing we need is men pretending to be women, and encouraged to do so, significantly negatively impacting all of those things.

So behave stop spouting uninformed, damaging, crap.

And guess what women can care about more than one thing. Shocking I know.

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