Has anyone seen the movie Conclave and would be happy to talk about the ending with me

[Philodendrine]

I looked for a thread but am not very good with the search function so if there's one already please let me know. I hope it's OK to ask this question here; I know there are some v knowledgeable posters and have followed various threads over the years and learned quite a bit.

I'm interested in whether the ending of Conclave (in particular, the new Pope's genetic make-up and appearance combination) is actually possible. My understanding from watching the film is that s/he was said to be chromosomally female (so I assume XX) but appearance had been unclear at birth, had been raised male and outward appearance is consistent with that (masculine features, low voice) but had found out in adulthood they had a uterus and ovaries.

My very limited understanding of DSDs is that if there is a voice that's broken / masculine body shape consistent with male puberty, then there must be testes of some kind (whether fully formed/descended or not) or otherwise there wouldn't be testosterone to effect those puberty type changes. So having a XX dsd and uterus/ovaries wouldn't work for that scenario I wouldn't have thought.

I read somewhere that the movie differed from the book in that the book said they had a vagina (not ovaries/uterus) - which I think could work, because an outwardly apparent 'vagina' but internal male organs and an XY DSD could still produce the outward male face/voice/body appearance. But to me the movie version doesn't seem to work. Can anyone with any better knowledge than mine tell me if I'm misunderstanding things?

This.

Plus a modern playing around with the myth of Pope Joan.

I didn’t mind it - I thought that the ending was the final twist on the politics of this hugely patriarchal church and just showed how silly they are …

I (stupid me) didn’t realise there’s a book on which the film is based. Interesting.

I thought they were male but born intersex, with genitalia that had features of both.

But intersex doesn’t mean that, @farmlife2 The “hermaphrodite” with both sets of genitalia is an ancient fantasy.

People with DSD or VSD. - differences/variations of sexual development are either male or female genetically, but have a distortion or variation from the standard XX or XY. chromosome make up.

They might have genitalia that are underdeveloped or sexual organs which are missing eg no uterus.

Yes, I understand it and that wasn't what I was saying. They can also have other variations where it can be ambiguous what sex they are at birth, or other things. I did study that topic in university years ago. I didn't see the issue with the new pope.

Imagine making a movie like that about an Imam or Muslim theme. Hollyweird feels free to insult the Catholic Church with its weird hang ups about trans people. It would NEVER dare film anything like that about Islam for fear of consequences.

By the way,all religions are patriarchal and misogynist but in the UK we're only allowed to criticise the Christian ones. The others are hands off in case of accusations of racism. Which is why we're not making any progress.

I despise the lot of them. They can do one.

If you're tempted to go to the newly opened up Saudi Arabia for a holiday, don't bother. They want the female tourists to mask up and wear a sack. Some holiday!

Life will be imitating art soon, judging by the news coming out of the Vatican.
RIP in advance, it doesn't look good, and the Habemus Papam machine will be gearing up already...

I thought this was an amazing film to look at and no doubt followed the steps of the election of a Pope. I loved the rituals, the sets and the Latin. Like others tho, this ending disappoint seemed unnecessary but all the intrigue did seem to suggest a big twist and they had to come up with something. I predicted it as I'm sure others here did.
I'm surprised it has got quite the acclaim that I has. I haven't read a Robert Harris since Fatherland in maybe 99, which I really enjoyed.

It did look very beautiful, and the setting is interesting - plus great actors, It is too bad that it couldn't be a different story. It's not like there isn't lots of compelling drama you could find in there.

I read this recently and quite enjoyed it until the end - I guessed the twist anyway, and then it all felt very rushed and a bit pointless.

I just assumed it was a miracle. Like the windows blowing at the exact Second they needed to. God working in mysterious ways.

I think the twist is deliberately farcical. Although the movie is played ‘straight’, it’s really funny because the Ralph Fennes character is genuinely Ely trying to secure an acceptable compromise, and every candidate ‘fails’ for reasons beyond his control and his anticipation. You can sense his WTF fear when he emerges as the preferred candidate, and is desperately trying to convince Stanley Tucci that he’s not conniving to win for himself. I admit I didn’t analyse too deeply the accuracy of the biology, and didn’t see it as a Hollywood (or author) trans gotcha, but the film to me was about a man who really really doesn’t want a job trying to secure a compromise candidate who lives by an acceptable value system.

The Holy Father has stuffed the Vatican to the gills with Jesuits so they will be following the liberalising trend he has started in the event of his passing.

Like Judi Dench winning Best Supporting Actress for Shakespeare in Love 😆

Was watching this again last night, chatting to a bishop friend on face time when he got a message saying that the HF was likely to die overnight. So he had to go and write a statement and a sermon.

I thought the ending was an annoying plot twist that doesn't stand up to critical thought. To be generous to Robert Harris, I agree with @DeepFatFried that he was commenting on ordination of women/women's place in Catholic Church.

I really enjoyed the film, hadn't read the book and felt like I had been tricked when the twist was revealed. Another woman in the audience at the cinema laughed so I think she had the same reaction as me.
I liked the character of the newcomer who won, and thought Ralph Fiennes played his part really well.

I've been reading the Italian press. They think HF is a goner and asking everyone to pray for him.

No. That would’ve been nice. They’re pushing the trans ideology. It worked, they got an Oscar for best film. Meaningless these days of course.

I also agree with @DeepFatFried

I agree, because of the character of the person.

I also agree with @DeepFatFried actually.