German right wing extremist changes gender ‘to be transferred to female prison’

[Justme56]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14294183/German-right-wing-extremist-gender-female-prison.html

And the Left says the Right has no sense of humour....

I wish I could read German. But, I'd waste all day on those links, and I have things that need to be done.

We've somewhat been here before.

One of the complaints about the FPfW leaflet/booklet that Maya Forstater left in the CGD was that it employed bold colours and imagery (the hand in "hands off my rights") that prompted the comparison to Nazi style choices. This emerged during the hearings. (The tribunal members rejected the interpretation.)
AG: I found it pretty difficult to read. It has red evil hand of TW getting women.
BC: you see that a red evil hand of a TW?
AG: it’s a self id person with GRA coming to take women’s rights. That how I see it. It seems quite sinister
BC: it’s using striking imagery in a campaigning tone
AG: that’s correct it’s very similar to blog post
BC: it’s clear points being emphasised are privacy safety dignity fairness in the rights women have for safe spaces?
AG: yes
BC: the hands off my rights is a perfectly normal graphic image opposing the removal of rights. Its not an evil TW hand that’s your prejudice isn’t it
https://hiyamaya.net/livetweets-from-the-tribunal/

128 On 13 October 2018 Ms Forstater posted on Twitter material including a campaign video produced by Fair Play for Women. The video put forward similar arguments to those in the booklet referred to above. Various features of the video, in addition to its message as such, were relied on by the Respondents in support of the argument that it was offensive. It was described as containing “ominous music”: the Tribunal agreed that it did. A cartoon-style hand shown taking away women’s rights was drawn in a way that made it look “evil” or threatening. Attention was also drawn to the red and black lettering used in the video, which Mr Plant said reminded him of the Nazis.

www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/Forstater-JR-AG.pdf

iirc the bemused and somewhat distressed illustrator explained that it was imagery from her Asian heritage, as had been the choice of bold colours. Does anyone recall her name? (MN and Google searches are both letting me down although I think it was about March 2022.)

Don't mean to sabotage a busy day but Twitter has an inbuilt translation option under each tweet 😉. Quite aside from Google Translate obviously.

In any case. The wars have moved on to Wikipedia as well. Editors tried to get the whole entry on the lovely lady removed on the grounds that it's playing into a political stunt, but that seems to be off the table for now. It's she/her throughout, with the discussion page emphasizing her lawyers will be quite capable of hunting down transgressing casual Wiki editors by their IP addresses. But that disclosing the dead name is quite allright, 10K fine or not, given that it's not actually disclosing anything the public didn't know all along. Also - for those of you who love and cherish German gendered nouns - it seems the Tagesspiegel has annotated one of its articles to change "Neonazi" into "Neonazi Person."

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marla-Svenja_Liebich

Hang on, I thought we were supposed to be the nazis? 😕

The latest Wiki update (11:14 CET, 18th Jan) seems to have removed all pronouns out of the article, only mentioning Liebich throughout.
The only time you could argue there's anything "female" in there is when they are talking about a person. In German it is "die Person", so a female word regardless of who you are talking about.

I archived the Wikipedia entry

https://archive.ph/ek2tS

@GrumpyPanda there is also Google Lens.
But I am resisting strongly here... I've done some cleaning and done the shopping so far today...

There's actually a well-documented history of many Nazis being cross dressers and therefore trans under the Stonewall definition.

Cross-dressing Nazis: A German artist found so many photos of them he published a book | National Post

There's actually a well-documented history of many Nazis being cross dressers and therefore trans under the Stonewall definition.

The Stonewall definition was changed on 27th June 2024 to boot out and no longer includes crossdressers.

Hah. Good on you you had the presence of mind to archive - sadly, I didn't. But still had the older tab open so managed to grab a screenshot 🤣. The discussion page in its present state actually lays out what they're doing & why (although they missed out an "ihr" in the "Wirken" section.)

Gruber from Allo Allo - farcical!

That was in reply to @Maerchentante .

Oh, they definitely have a sense of humour! the AFD have now started a new slogan "Alice for Germany" which (in German) is a hilarious pun based on the fact that their leader is a woman called Alice and an old political slogan used by.... well it doesn't really matter who originally used it. Its all good pun fun.

Much as it is, in a sense, good that this issue is getting reported more (and the law being exposed as the nonsense it is) its frustrating, but entirely predictable, that it is happening just as Germany is on the cusp of an election in which the far right is looking to make huge gains**. Its similar to how the US Republican party unleashed their "Kamala is for they" campaign right at the very end of the election cycle as a sort of killer blow that the Democrats would have no time or way to counter. Even if the left wing/centre political parties wanted to rethink their position on this (they should) there isn't really any time to do a course correct before the election. Gaaaaahh.

**The AFD are far right. Before anyone pops up to say "you can't call everyone that disagrees with you far right. Marine Le Pen has her own Cordon Sanitairre against them FFS."

Much as it is, in a sense, good that this issue is getting reported more (and the law being exposed as the nonsense it is) its frustrating, but entirely predictable, that it is happening just as Germany is on the cusp of an election in which the far right is looking to make huge gains.

@biscuitandcake , we've all been wanging on for years about this insanity will come home to roost. It's crazy that it takes the far right to wake people up to the possibility of this sort of law being abused.

Thanks for the update Chersfrozenface. I didn't realise that Stonewall had now cast out cross dressers. How can they tell the difference between a cross dresser and someone gender fluid I wonder?

What with LGB people leaving and people with DSDs formally leaving, Stonewall are hardly going to have any people left to represent.

Yes.
This is one of those situations where it would be really really nice not to be proven right however.

How can they tell the difference between a cross dresser and someone gender fluid I wonder?

A very good question.

It'll be feelings and words, I expect.

"I'm a man who gets a sexual thrill from wearing women's underwear" - cross dresser, begone with you!

"Some days I feel like a man, some days I feel like a man, I'm gender-fluid" - welcome, you're under the trans umbrella.

And no-one would ever lie, obviously.

As someone has already pointed out on this thread, the law isn't being abused, it's being used.

It's a law which says anyone can choose their gender. No exceptions. No gatekeeping. Everyone can just make a choice.

That's my understanding of how a self-id law works, anyway.

@GrumpyPanda : "with the discussion page emphasizing her lawyers will be quite capable of hunting down transgressing casual Wiki editors by their IP addresses."

WTF?

It is high time that one of these SBGG cases (Selbstbestimmungsgesetz = self id law) gets through to the Bundesverfassungsgericht (constitutional court). If they tried this stunt with any other identity (Jewish, Black, etc) they'd be shown the door quicker than they can spell TW.

The Bundesverfassungsgericht did criticise the old Transsexuals Act, but they didn't require this free for all. I doubt they will go along with what appears to be a general taking away of rights and freedoms of women with fascist methods (I never thought I'd write that about mainstream people in Germany who purport to be progressive. But they have no compunction to use the system to bully critics into submission).

It hasn't reached the mainstream (hospitals, schools and workplaces) yet in Germany, so they can argue it does not affect the mainstream, but as we know from experience in other countries, they won't stop here.

Mm, but in another way ... it makes sense, right?

And even though only people FFF follows can answer, there is A LOT of pushback.

https://nitter.poast.org/FFFLeipzig/status/1879456886724104291

"Lol. Jetzt hat es mal jemand missbraucht, der euch nicht passt. Wenn Fetischisten und queere Realitätsverweigerer es missbrauchen, seid ihr leise, ihr Heuchler.
Lol. Now someone has abused it who doesn't suit you. When fetishists and queer reality deniers abuse it, you are quiet, you hypocrites."

"Warum sprecht ihr dieser Frau ihre Identität ab? Seid ihr transphob?
Why do you deny this woman her identity? Are you transphobic?"

"niemand kann das gesetz MISSBRAUCHEN. es ist der vorgesehene prozess, dass ein mann (JEDER) sagt, dass er eine frau sei - das wars.
nur weil dieser euch nicht passt ändert es nichts daran, dass das sbgg IM GRUNDSATZ mist ist. KEIN mann ist eine frau.
No one can ABUSE the law. It's the intended process for a man (EVERYONE) to say he's a woman – that's it. just because it doesn't suit you doesn't change the fact that the sbgg is basically crap. NO man is a woman."

"Ihr versteht nicht was Missbrauch heißt. Das #selbstbestimmungsrecht kann nicht missbraucht werden. Missbrauch alle anderen deutschen Gesetze, Missbrauch von Frauenrechten und Missbrauch der Gesellschaft ist der Sinn dieses Gesetzes.
You don't understand what abuse means. The #selbstbestimmungsrecht cannot be abused. Abuse of all other German laws, abuse of women's rights and abuse of society is the meaning of this law."

Found her online shop - this is her delightfully traditional design in support of our male sisters:

A classic design. Looking forward to seeing it on the opposite side of the barriers at the next Let Women Speak event.

My German husband and I are totally supportive of Marla Svenja. Sadly though we will vote green!

How can WE tell the difference between a crossdresser and a TW? One for the TRAs who patrol these boards to answer, methinks.