Almost two thirds of tw prisoners are sex offenders

[lcakethereforeIam]

Article in the Telegraph

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/12/31/almost-two-thirds-of-trans-women-prisoners-sex-offenders/

https://archive.ph/e7jKy

I'd like to know what exceptional circumstances the Government envision that would put a man who could be a sex offender and/or still has male genitalia in a woman's prison.

Obviously this does not equate to two thirds of tw being sex offenders. However, it is rare for a sex offender to be locked up forever. These men, like Isla Bryson, will all be released one day. A day when we can look forward to seeing them in our toilets, changing rooms and other spaces that should be single sex.

Wow! Thanks Cake. I am off to read this.

As little as that?!

"A Ministry of Justice spokesman said: “Well over 90 per cent of transgender women in custody are held in the men’s estate and those who’ve been convicted of sexual or violent offences – and/or who retain male genitalia – cannot be held in a women’s prison unless in truly exceptional circumstances.”"

The Scottish Prison Service is much less careful than this.

As you say, almost all these prisoners will one day be freed.
We already know there is no legal requirement, anywhere in the UK, to accept someone's self identified sex.
We await the result of the For Women Scotland Supreme Court case on whether a Gender Recognition Certificate determines a person's legal sex at all times.

https://x.com/JoPhoenix1/status/1874087243675029812

Jo phoenix has been posting on X today on the same subject

This was a question answered this month:

https://questions-statements.parliament.uk/written-questions/detail/2024-12-16/20298.

Question from Rebecca Paul (MP Reigate): To ask the Secretary of State for Justice, with reference to the HMPPS Offender Equalities Annual Report 2023-2024, published on 28 November 2024, how many of the 50 transgender prisoners who reported their legal gender as female were convicted of a sexual offence.

Answer from Sir Richard Dakin (MP Scunthorpe): 23 December 2024
Of the 245 transgender prisoners who reported their legal gender as male (i.e. those who now identify as women, non-binary or gender-fluid) on 31 March 2024, 151 were convicted of a sexual offence. This includes both contact and non-contact sexual offences. Offence data was not available for 1 individual.

Of the 50 transgender prisoners who reported their legal gender as female on 31 March 2024, the number convicted of a sexual offence is five or fewer. We do not provide exact data for such small sample sizes as it risks identification of individuals. This approach is in line with our standards on data disclosure.

To put this into perspective with what we already knew from FOI information. I posted the information to a regular poster from FWR on another thread, who did not acknowledge the information at all, so it seems sticking the info here is appropriate:

Here is data from the MoJ

Here is an FOI request from 30 April 2024

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/populationoftransgenderoffend/response/2641337/attach/html/7/FOI%20240322022%20Annex%20A.xlsx.html

Up to the 31st March 2023, the MoJ stated that of the 88 male transgender prisoners with one or more sexual offences.

The breakdown was
48 rapes,
0 attempted rapes,
10 Sexual assault or attempted sexual assault,
13 causing or inciting a child under 16 to engage in sexual activity,
0 indecent assault or gross indecency
6 sexual activity with a child under 16
0 other

77 listed here.... BUT there is a total of 88 in the total so there is 11 crimes not noted.

Possessing or making indecent photographs or pseudo photographs of child has not been recorded in this FOI.

However, there is are further discrepancies in the data of the following when you look at TOTAL NUMBER OF TRANSGENDER PRISONERS SENTENCED FOR A PRINCIPAL SEXUAL OFFENCE.

1 causing or inciting a child under 16 to engage in sexual activity
3 rapes
2 sexual activity with a child under 16
3 Sexual assault or attempted sexual assault,

This equals 9 additional... however the sum for TOTAL NUMBER OF TRANSGENDER PRISONERS SENTENCED FOR A PRINCIPAL SEXUAL OFFENCE is 99.

Therefore 2 more sex crimes have been hidden from this data.

There were 203 males who were declared as transgender in the prison at the time.

There were 24 NB who were not segregated into male and female. What is key here, is that THIS IS NON-GRC HOLDERS. And we all know that males holding GRCs have increased and they are excluded from this data. NO female people with transgender identities were sentenced to a principal sexual offence. There were 41 female people with transgender identities in UK prisons at that time.

As a comparison, I have stats that say as of April 2019 that the general male MoJ data for male sex offenders was just 16.8% of the male prison population. And there were 3.3% of female people in UK prisons were sex offenders.

I will leave you to do your own sums. But... even using the figure of 88/203 is 43.3%. (And that doesn't include making or possessing indecent photographs of a child remember.)

By the way this exercise was done in 2021. And I checked this data myself from the data source and it was correct at the time. So, it will give some back ground to the above.

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/breakdown_ofoffencescommitted
The ones that say that in the March/April 2021 data collection period, the MoJ stated that of the 97 transgender prisoners with one or more sexual offences.

The breakdown was
40 rapes,
8 attempted rapes,
31 possessing or making indecent photographs or pseudo photographs of child,
32 Sexual assault or attempted sexual assault,
20 causing or inciting a child under 16 to engage in sexual activity,
10 indecent assault or gross indecency
9 sexual activity with a child under 16
27 other

The 97 sex offender transgender prisons collected 177 sentences between them.

And that according to that FOI 197 prisoners are transgender.

Some screenshots for those not on x

Screenshot part 2

Well, I look forward to the denials being posted that these figures are either meaningless because ..... or are incorrect.

I look forward to the posters who will come and declare that these figures show :

-that there is discrimination against males with transgender identities receiving a higher conviction rate than the males from the general UK population and so therefore do not show what we think they show.

-that there are always a 'few bad eggs' and that safeguarding principles should still be ignored for the rest of the group of male people with transgender identities.

-that there are obviously over inflated numbers due to all the male people who are not really 'transgender' but who have attempted to trick the system to get better treatment.

Please list any that I have missed that we expect to see on this thread.

Goodness. I wonder what those exceptional circumstances might be.

I love how Jo does facts. What did S Hines do because that bit I don’t see?

@Helleofabore are those figures only where a conviction has been secured? Presumably yes but just asking to be sure. Also the presentation of the information in that FOI using "principal offence" looks like there might be other data and offences but we can't know from what has been released.

They are conviction rates and only reflect those in prison, if I understand correctly.

I suspect they are figures for the principal offence as you say.

Thank you Hell

Please list any that I have missed that we expect to see on this thread.

That you're just saying this because you reeeeeally hate all trans people
(plus all the other drivel that was asserted on the AIBU passport thread the other day)

You've missed that transphobia made them do it and it was justified self defence

Five minutes ago everybody knew that men who had an antisocial sexual fetish involving boundary violation would of course be likely to commit sex crimes.

Trying to pretend this is a civil rights issue has sucked up so much time, energy, emotion and money from women, it's unbelievable.

Of course some people will say that it's just mean to make assumptions about people based on the actions of a few bad apples, but isn't that exactly how laws are made?
I'm not a criminologist, but isn't it about analysing patterns of behaviour to try to reduce future crimes and protect the vulnerable?

Wow. This hasn't been deleted.

I'm faintly astonished the thread is still up.

The stats aren't at all surprising. Transvestisn and AGP are fetishes. Fetishes tend to cluster - a man with one is likely to have more, and fetishists are almost exclusively male. For every timid gay gender dysphoric male we're encouraged to welcome there will be a boundary violating voyeur or exhibitionist.

Logically, it's because I haven't said all men who identify as trans have an antisocial sexual fetish involving boundary violation. I've just said that those who do...

Looking at crime more widely than this report, are we allowed to mention serial killers (such as BTK) and crossdressing, or is that verboten?

Isn't strange that the rates of sex offenders declaring as trans went up massively when policies came into being potentially allowing them to transfer to women's prisons?

I'm sure if there were policies that placed aliens in women's prisons there will suddenly be a massive growth in male sex offenders identifying as alien.

Prison Onset Gender Dysphoria - isn't it?