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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Independent runs an article saying men in women's changing rooms are bad

37 replies

fromorbit · 15/12/2024 21:02

Apparently this is serious now.

A man walked in on me in a changing room – but what happened next was even more shocking
Women are often told to shrug things off but this type of behaviour rarely happens in isolation, writes Olivia Petter. If we don’t take it more seriously, who knows where it may lead?

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/selfridges-womens-changing-room-sexual-harassment-b2663967.html

Isn't it fine if the man is wearing a dress though? I am confused.

A man walked into my changing room – but what happened next was even more shocking

Women are often told to shrug things off but this type of behaviour rarely happens in isolation, writes Olivia Petter. If we don’t take it more seriously, who knows where it may lead?

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/selfridges-womens-changing-room-sexual-harassment-b2663967.html

OP posts:
MrsOvertonsWindow · 15/12/2024 21:09

Is the Independent not fully TWAW, women objecting are bigots and transphobes and if a man wants access to women when undressed, crack on mate??

Circumferences · 15/12/2024 23:04

Total hypocrites

Butteryscone · 15/12/2024 23:08

I can’t believe the police came round. I wonder if she told them she was a journalist?

Hopefully Olivia can now imagine why mums (who have often had lots of challenging experiences) want to protect their daughters and other young women who seem naive to the dangers of mixed sex spaces.
Unsurprisely enough, men target changing rooms and toilets - the more secluded the better. All these new mixed sex toilets with doors right down to the floor are perfect for them.

NPET · 15/12/2024 23:12

Good piece and good to name the shop. I'll make sure I and, hopefully all my friends, don't shop in Selfridges.

DrBlackbird · 15/12/2024 23:19

This came up on my news feed and I was taken aback that itwas printed in the fully TWAW Independent. Possibly the paper is algorithmically feeding us the articles it thinks that we want to see now?

ChaChaChooey · 15/12/2024 23:22

It’s a Christmas Miracle!

✨🤶🏽🎄🥳

lcakethereforeIam · 15/12/2024 23:37

What a horrible experience for her.

But yeah, if the guy claimed to be a tw it would have been a different scenario because kindness!

lcakethereforeIam · 16/12/2024 00:14

What's the difference?

annejumps · 16/12/2024 00:27

Indeed what is the difference? One man has said he's a woman and (possibly; it's entirely optional) dressed like one. Because after all we wouldn't want to police and restrict who can claim a trans identity, literally any male can claim one. Et voila.

GargoylesofBeelzebub · 16/12/2024 00:35

Justme56 · 16/12/2024 00:09

Don’t get too excited as Olivia (the journo) was adamant this was a cisgender man.

https://x.com/oliviapetter1/status/1868229568987054182?s=46&t=ZX_bLozRqm8etdGICMcAvA

Ugh what a fool she is.

itsmylife7 · 16/12/2024 00:38

lcakethereforeIam · 16/12/2024 00:14

What's the difference?

This man had trousers on probably.

GCITC · 16/12/2024 00:42

Justme56 · 16/12/2024 00:09

Don’t get too excited as Olivia (the journo) was adamant this was a cisgender man.

https://x.com/oliviapetter1/status/1868229568987054182?s=46&t=ZX_bLozRqm8etdGICMcAvA

The mental gymnastics are olympic medal worthy

OldCrone · 16/12/2024 01:33

Justme56 · 16/12/2024 00:09

Don’t get too excited as Olivia (the journo) was adamant this was a cisgender man.

https://x.com/oliviapetter1/status/1868229568987054182?s=46&t=ZX_bLozRqm8etdGICMcAvA

How does she know? Did she ask him his pronouns?

OldCrone · 16/12/2024 01:43

Olivia feels uncomfortable and threatened when a man enters her changing room because he's cisgender, although it's unclear how she knows this as she doesn't seem to have asked him about his gender identity and she doesn't report that he volunteered this information.

She thinks the Darlington nurses are transphobic bigots because the man in their changing room has declared a womanly identity.

I wonder how things would have gone if the man she encountered had said "It's OK, I'm a laydee"? I suppose she could have written a column about how wonderfully inclusive she felt sharing her changing room with him, and how she didn't feel in the least bit uncomfortable or threatened.

Dollybantree · 16/12/2024 01:49

I get the impression if he’d been wearing a dress and lipstick she’d be ok with it.

LonginesPrime · 16/12/2024 02:09

It's utterly bizarre that she hasn't twigged that transgenderism and potential accusations of transphobia is the likely reason shop staff are reluctant to challenge a man in the ladies' changing rooms, and ironic that she would throw blanket accusations of transphobia around on Twitter in light of this.

Does she see that calling anyone who acknowledges sex differences transphobic is exactly why she had that experience where no staff wanted to get involved?

Really strange to care so much about sex differences when it comes to herself but to pretend it's a non-issue when other women feel uncomfortable in the same situation, just because this man was presumably wearing trousers.

I also wonder whether the part about the man giving her a lecherous look outside the fitting room beforehand was actually true, or if it was the only way she could frame it as a story about an undisputed sex predator as as opposed to a random man in a woman's space for what could turn out to be potentially 'innocent' reason, such as being mistakenly placed in the wrong body at birth.

It just felt forced, like she knew she couldn't complain about a man being in the changing rooms unless she could evidence how she was sure he was an actual pervert first - because it's not ok to segregate by sex so only perverted men who are committing an actual crime aren't allowed in women's spaces. But all the men who do it on the sly are welcome, as only bigots care about sex.

Mummyoflittledragon · 16/12/2024 02:42

Justme56 · 16/12/2024 00:09

Don’t get too excited as Olivia (the journo) was adamant this was a cisgender man.

https://x.com/oliviapetter1/status/1868229568987054182?s=46&t=ZX_bLozRqm8etdGICMcAvA

How did she know this unless she asked him? And it reads as though she didn’t.

Taytoface · 16/12/2024 06:33

Olivia is clearly hard of thinking.

misscockerspaniel · 16/12/2024 07:41

It is only voyeurism if the man is wearing "men's" attire, such as trousers etc. Come on, we all know the rules.

Lovelysummerdays · 16/12/2024 07:52

Possibly a helpful trans woman who had clocked she’d need assistance with her ties. The lecherous look was for the coveted dress. If only she had said hello like a normal person, and perhaps asked for a tampon, they’d be embarking on a life long friendship.

Skyrainlight · 16/12/2024 08:12

The comments to her post clarifying cisgender on X are very amusing. She is getting quite the bashing for her hypocrisy.

Igmum · 16/12/2024 08:23

Yes love those comments - 100% terf 😂

Iwishihadariver · 16/12/2024 08:27

Late to the party as usual, and everything I said to DH as I read the article has already been said on this thread. It's like getting 100% on a "spot the deliberate mistakes test".

DrBlackbird · 16/12/2024 08:40

Justme56 · 16/12/2024 00:09

Don’t get too excited as Olivia (the journo) was adamant this was a cisgender man.

https://x.com/oliviapetter1/status/1868229568987054182?s=46&t=ZX_bLozRqm8etdGICMcAvA

Probably worrying that she inadvertently highlighted a key safeguarding concern in the TWAW debacle and that she won’t get published in the Independent again. Now backtracking. After usefully illustrating exactly the problem with saying TWAW.

Though cognitive dissonance and/or hard of logic always a possibility. Forgivable when my DD was early teens insisting that you CAN tell the difference between a true trans and a predatory male who wants access to a women’s shelter. Less so in an intelligent adult.