The latest fallouts in GC world

[Pluvia]

My terfing energy has been focussed elsewhere in recent months and I haven't been here or on TwiX or social media much. Now I've taken responsibility for tweeting/ comms on behalf of a small but potentially significant LGB group and I discover that there seems to be something going on — another schism — in GC world. Jane Clare Jones's name seems to be coming up a lot. Something seems to have gone on but I can't work out what.

If it was my own account I'd just ignore, but the followers of this account are bringing it up and seem to expect an opinion to be expressed or a side to be taken. Also I'm seeing a lot about 'ultras' and 'lites', which is new to me. Can anyone enlighten me? I need to tread carefully.

I suggest Small is Beautiful by E F Schumacher.

Thanks! I've seen that one about.

I don't actually think it matters too much to the broader movement. People fall out, women move on.

It's sometimes difficult for the individuals involved, but we're not in fact a hive mind nor a cult and I think it's healthy and inevitable for there to be a certain amount of churn. Pressure groups and grassroots organisations and some political movements especially are usually existing to try to solve specific issues, once that's achieved, they risk becoming moribund and need to change or cease.

That said, I did really love the 'gc movement' years back for the fact that there was so much cross party work done, and so much willingness to work alongside and listen to women with disparate views.

And it's been pointed out before that the type of people who are willing and able to stand up and talk against the orthodoxy are generally strong willed, less concerned about being 'agreeable', and willing to stick to their principles rather than rub along for a quiet life.

A bunch of them from all different backgrounds, political positions and life situations all chucked in together are almost guaranteed to experience friction.

That is a book that I haven't heard mentioned for many, many years.

Yes it was very popular in the 70s 80s iirc. Maybe it is due a revisit.

From my perspective, some people are full time feminists. It’s in some way their job, or their key interest.

Others are otherwise engaged and only part time, serially monogamous feminists if you will. Their attention is caught by one issue or another and they get caught up in tackling it. But then have to focus on other things again. Still feminists, but not actively involved in anything.

I think it’s only the first category that have any concept of a homogeneous movement, that want everyone to discuss the issues, and then agree on a way forward. They would then be intolerant of those who act unilaterally or have unpalatable opinions on a different subject.

The second category, people like me, just wouldn’t begin to think everyone should agree about abortion/maternity leave/single sex spaces - let alone effectively separate issues like Israel/Palestine.

Yes, it's the purity politics that is seen so often on the Left - one wrong opinion and you're beyond the pale. It's disappointing to see it happening in feminism too but I guess feminists are more likely to be left-wing.

I'm all for healthy disagreement - if you put a load of feisty women together who feel passionately about things then it's somewhat inevitable - but not this nonsense. Can't we just focus on the issue in hand rather than in-fighting over unrelated causes?

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20141014171926/www.ditext.com/schumacher/small/small.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://web.archive.org/web/20141014171926/www.ditext.com/schumacher/small/small.html

Whole text!

"Then she gets a huge ego boost from patronising women who find it difficult to speak up and they fangirl her in return.
Excruciating. I’m glad she has lost so much popularity. One day her platform won’t be so big and her whining will get much worse. Her PoW was an embarrassing disaster."

I obviously cannot let this pass without comment 😂

"patronising women who find it difficult to speak up and they fangirl her in return."
I think that is "excruciatingly patronising" about the women who take the mic at LWS events.

"she has lost so much popularity."
What evidence do you have for that claim?

"Her PoW was an embarrassing disaster."
I don't think you have grasped the purpose of POW standing candidates in the General Election.

As I was one of them, let me enlighten you.

If you imagine that I am "fan girling" at the start of this video, that is on you. There was misinformation going round that KJK had not provided any support for POW candidates. That was very far from the truth so I was keen to dispel that myth:

LWS Morpeth - Party of Women - Liz Panton

Here, I apparently have "difficulty speaking" about Northumbria Police:
Northumbria Police: a Curate's Egg

Here, I have "difficulty speaking" about Trade Unions:

Trade Unions - Equality Act Section 57: Liz Panton

More pertinently, Paula from Oxford talks about women who genuinely had difficulty speaking and being heard speaking about the Grooming Gang and lack of support for victims in Oxford:

Police & "Anti-Fascists" Silenced Women speaking about Oxford Grooming Gang: LWS 25 May 2025, Paula

Something that's consistently missed in the KJK vs Soc-Narcs discussion is that one needn't even like or have any strong opinion about KJK at all: we just don't like bullying, and she's had numerous lies told about her personal life, family, as well as being likened to dog excrement by FiLIA. If she's an irrelevance to your brand of feminism, then perhaps just let her get on with it and don't make yourself look deranged by publishing entire magazines about THE NAZI etc etc.

This. So much this.

Ironically the lies and attempted smears of KJK I think likely increase her popularity amongst normal women who care about the issues and aren't interested in petty ego trips. Attempting to shut KJK up and police what she can talk about is also trying to shut up all the women attending her events trying to talk about what matters to them: same sex intimate healthcare, lesbian only spaces, grooming gangs and how they've been otherwise silenced, child safeguarding, whatever it is.

And I've been to LWS events and I don't feel patronised. I think my opinion about who is patronising me is probably all that counts, thanks. And it's not KJK. KJK actually lets women speak AND LISTENS. No interrupting, no gatekeeping. I can't think of anyone else who does that for normal women.

Something that’s consistently missed by the kjk fan girls on here is that kjk can’t go a day without slagging someone off
x.com/theposieparker/status/1944634623792722181?s=46

"Fan girls", forsooth.

I don't know KJK. I've never met her. I do know some of the more prominent socfems who have been taking aim at her for years. The same people who thought it was jolly japes to smear KJK as some kind of neonazi, when they are very aware that there are men in the left wing activist space who will take that to mean "KJK is an enemy of the people and should be assaulted on sight."

Presumably they thought that designating an acceptable enemy would win them some favours with the TRAs who they feel a social affinity for. Spoiler: it didn't. I have never heard a TRA say "KJK is an enemy of the people but that Sarah Ditum makes some valid points."

So? She can say what she likes. She doesn't have to "be nice" or "be kind" and she's allowed to take issue with someone.

This, exactly.

"fangirls" 🤡

You just can't help yourself, can you?

Who exactly are you trying to impress with this sort of juvenile sniping?

Did you link the wrong post because this is so benign?

I suspect KJK will never lose her ability to make me say "fuck sake, what were you thinking" but...

I know the first rule of WPUK is you don't talk about WPUK, but there's a particular approach that section of the movement had that really rubbed me up the wrong way:

1. An attitude of "we've got a nice little high-status club here and you're not part of it"
2. Alongside having an exclusive club, an attitude of "we're the leaders of this movement and nobody gets to say or do anything that doesn't meet our approval"
3. The ridiculous spectacle of women well into adulthood literally Voldemorting their designated enemy and publishing opaque open letters denouncing someone, while not naming the person they were obviously talking about

The amazing thing is that they got away with it for so long. When faced with that sort of teenage nonsense, the only appropriate response is to ignore them, do your own thing, and if they threaten to denounce you in their magazine, say "so what, your magazine has 16 subscribers".

Always wanted to be a fan girl but could never get the tassels to stay on.

Don't make me go looking for gifs!!!

😂😱

Who was she "slagging off" in that tweet?

Calling normal women on mumsnet 'fangirls' seems a lot nastier to me than that tweet stating an opinion about a famous person who's an open misogynist to be honest.

As my wee granny would’ve said about KJK ‘There’s no back doors in thon'.

Which means she’s straightforward and more or less what you see is what you get. She is one of those people who says what she’s thinking and, while I sometimes wonder why she’s saying something in a particular way, on the whole I respect her forthright manner. I disagree with her on some things and agree with her on others. And I lost respect for WPUK and The Radical Notion et al for trashing her.

I’m also glad to see that KJK and Jean Hatchet have patched up their differences recently.

I'm no expert, but that looks arse backwards to me.