The latest fallouts in GC world

[Pluvia]

My terfing energy has been focussed elsewhere in recent months and I haven't been here or on TwiX or social media much. Now I've taken responsibility for tweeting/ comms on behalf of a small but potentially significant LGB group and I discover that there seems to be something going on — another schism — in GC world. Jane Clare Jones's name seems to be coming up a lot. Something seems to have gone on but I can't work out what.

If it was my own account I'd just ignore, but the followers of this account are bringing it up and seem to expect an opinion to be expressed or a side to be taken. Also I'm seeing a lot about 'ultras' and 'lites', which is new to me. Can anyone enlighten me? I need to tread carefully.

N one is saying there wasn't feminist writing about motherhood.

@AnotherDayComeMonday No, I don't keep receipts so I'm fine if you choose not to believe my impressions. I may well be wrong because I'm talking about how I feel. My personal interactions with academic feminists have left me with the feeling I'm irrelevant because I haven't read enough. And many randoms on these boards have tried the same over more than 10 years. I couldn't care less what class you are, though I'm confused by the random bolding of words.

@CandyMaker I've just googled "bbc cotton ceiling" and the only link is from 2021 but if you've an earlier link I'd be glad to receive it.

I'm not an academic feminist. I've been to a Standing for Women event and enjoyed it. I think this distinction between snooty, middle-class academics on one side and salt of the earth, plain speaking women on the other is a false binary.

I don't understand the sneering at academics (they do valuable work that I don't have the ability or the inclination to do) and I don't know of anything JCJ in particular has ever said to denigrate working-class women. The idea that she deliberately tries to exclude women by being long-winded is just wrong. A lot of those claims come directly from Twitter attacks on JCJ that have been repeated so many times they're treated as truth.

There are posters on here saying that women are "calling themselves feminists when they don't understand feminism" (call the feminism police!) and it was key to the domesticated zombies comment as discussed upthread, and it's why a lot of women felt alienated by WPUK.

It feels disingenuous that you are trying to deny this is an issue and claim it's all based on a false narrative.

I'm confused by your claims of feminists denigrating women for being working class or not reading 3000 words. I think if you make claims you should back them up with evidence.

Perhaps the apparent newcomers to this thread would like to explain this post? Why are women on Mumsnet Feminism and Women's Rights board wrong in claiming to be feminists? What don't we understand exactly?

I'm confused by your claims of feminists denigrating women for being working class or not reading 3000 words. I think if you make claims you should back them up with evidence.

Yes of course, that's literally never happened 🙄

That's one post...
Are so called newcomers not welcome to this board?

@JemimaTiggywinkles The BBC update links. This one was from 2021. The New Statesman ran an article about the cotton ceiling in 2018.
The very early articles about the cotton ceiling from 2012 are all on lesbian or feminist sites though or social media.

OK, if you say so. I'll take your word for it. Ta

It's the post a lot of the discussion on this fairly long thread is revolving around, so it's polite not to ignore it and weigh in without understanding what the argument is. Of course newcomers are welcome, but maybe it's a good idea to read the full thread if you want to have a balanced view of why people are saying what they are. Rather than demanding evidence.

@JemimaTiggywinkles The BBC update links. This one was from 2021. The New Statesman ran an article about the cotton ceiling in 2018.

Yes, in the mainstream because it was starting to be covered in the mainstream press. The previous ones weren't picked up in mainstream media at the time.

I have read the thread and have not seen evidence of how feminists denigrate working class women. Especially as some of those feminists are themselves working class.

The idea that she deliberately tries to exclude women by being long-winded is just wrong. A lot of those claims come directly from Twitter attacks on JCJ that have been repeated so many times they're treated as truth.

I can only speak from my own experience of TwiX and I've encountered her laughing at the idea of her verbosity being exclusionary. But it is. I'm a scientist and in my world you can't call yourself a good communicator unless you can explain the idea to a non-specialist 18yo. I don't see why feminist academics should exclude themselves from society in this way and I think they harm the cause when they do so.

@CandyMaker that's my point. None of it appeared in mainstream press and almost nobody was aware of it! Of course it appeared in specialist publications but trying to get anyone to read them is like pulling teeth.

It's not just about working class v middle class, it has some bearing on it though. It's about the idea that some women get to tell the rest of us what to do.

I have read the thread and have not seen evidence of how feminists denigrate working class women. Especially as some of those feminists are themselves working class.

You have repeatedly put down and patronised women on this feminist board. And no, I don't require your approval to call myself a feminist.

@JemimaTiggywinkles In 2012 it was an issue that was only affecting lesbian and feminist communities. No one else cared.

I have been repeatedly attacked on this thread. Again and again.

So interesting to have people actually telling people on the thread they aren't feminists, and then claiming that doesn't happen.

can only speak from my own experience of TwiX and I've encountered her laughing at the idea of her verbosity being exclusionary. But it is. I'm a scientist and in my world you can't call yourself a good communicator unless you can explain the idea to a non-specialist 18yo. I don't see why feminist academics should exclude themselves from society in this way and I think they harm the cause when they do so.

As pp said, the idea that you can't be part of a civil rights movement for women, as a woman yourself, unless you've read certain academic views and "understand" them is ridiculous and not something applied to race, gay rights etc.

Fine I will leave you all in peace. I have had enough of being attacked.
Not as bad as the very personal insults KJK threw at me though.

So interesting to have people actually telling people on the thread they aren't feminists, and then claiming that doesn't happen.

Quite.

And for the record, the commenter said she was not a feminist and I agreed.

No one has any idea who you are, or any interest in any personal spat you may have had with KJK.

And for the record, the commenter said she was not a feminist and I agreed.

That's up to her. You don't get a say.