"My Husband Tried to BECOME Me" - Heretics Interview with Trans Widow

[UtopiaPlanitia]

Andrew Gold's YT channel has this interview going live at 19.00 UK time today and I thought I'd start a thread in case anyone would like to discuss the video.

A bit of background regarding this interview:

In his recent video with Blair White, Andrew Gold mentioned to White that he had interviewed Tracy Shannon a few hours before filming his interview with White. And Gold told White that he and Shannon had a disagreement about trans issues, that he believed Shannon was very "hurt by this" and "against all this", and so he "gave her a bit of push back".

And now that the interview with Tracy is coming out, I'm going to be interested to see if Gold really was more sympathetic to Blair White in his previous interview than he was when interviewing Tracy Shannon.

Some notes typed while I'm watching:

• Tracy makes the point that it's crazy in our society that a man who is considered a successful sex mimic is being celebrated for that.

• Narcissists are being allowed to control the women & children in their family and the women in their workplaces/society in general.

• State records are being changed and preventing proper criminal records checks for safeguarding.

• Andrew Gold thinks women need to accept help from trans-identifying men who accept that they have a fetish and/ or accept they are biologically male.

• Tracy pushes back that why should women accept help from men who are not living a sane life. They have a disorder and it creates more disorder in society to accept that men want to live as 'sex mimics'.

• Andrew thinks women holding the line might serve to radicalise trans-identifying men.

• Andrew thinks not all trans-identifying men are fetishists or doing things that endanger women.

• Tracy argues that 'sex mimics' are not on the side of women and they are still trying to order society culturally around their desire to live as if they were the opposite sex.

• Andrew supports Buck Angel and Blair White because they don't deceive and hurt women, unlike males with AGP.

• Tracey argues that people like Buck Angel and Blair White have created their own problems by changing their appearances so radically and that it is not women's issue to solve the problems in the lives of more successful or honest 'sex mimics' and that accepting them would also lessen the protective ability of safeguarding.

• Andrew pushes back and says Buck Angel is a decent person who is trying to prevent children going down the path she went down.

• Tracy argues that Buck is putting dangerous ideas out into society that are unethical and that may encourage young people to copy her.

• Tracy argues that people like Buck and Blair needed better help than the surgery and hormones they were given.

• Tracy argues that in the area of activism Buck and Blair are pushing Libertarian ideas that trans is not good for children but it's fine for adults to do whatever they want to be happy.

• Tracy argues that what is going on in society is harmful to women and children, even if the person arguing for transgender ideology is a nice person.

• Andrew says they differ politically and he is more Libertarian and wants people to be able to do what they want.

Had to stop at 55 mins into the video to do a few other tasks and will finish the watching the rest later tonight.

Impressive note taking!

• Andrew Gold thinks women need to accept help from trans-identifying men who accept that they have a fetish and/ or accept they are biologically male.

What help do we need? Apart from the obvious of wanting biological men out of women's spaces. Name me one TW who wants to help with that.

Methinks AG doesn't need to wear a dress to get his "kicks" as he seems to be getting them elsewhere.

😊

I was worried that my summaries wouldn't be very comprehensible but they seem okay after all 🤔

Well, I watched the Blair White interview this morning and BW is of the opinion that if women don't want BW in women's spaces then that's women's negative attitude because BW is not a danger to women and thus BW is not taking any blame or responsibility for avoiding women's spaces on his shoulders.

And, as it seems all men who interview BW do, AG found this perfectly reasonable of BW to state. AG even agreed that trans-identifying males who are not attracted to women are no danger to women and shouldn't be seen as the enemy by women.

The concept of material reality, privacy, and dignity for women passed both these chaps by so fast there was an audible sonic boom 🙄

It's a no from me.

Notes from watching the remaining video:

• Tracy discusses the sadness her sons felt after her husband became 'an imposter or an alien" to the children.

• The kids wanted their Dad to come to Father/Son events just like other kids' parents.

• Inclusivity is not what kids want, they wanted their dad to be their dad and be a father to them.

• Tracy argues that these men lack clear boundaries and put too much ahead of taking care of their kids.

• Tracy's ex had a FTM lover who would ask Tracy's kids to inject her testosterone for her and she threatened to spank the kids for not using he/him pronouns correctly. The lover also threatened to kill Tracy and her kids.

• Tracy had to go to court more than once to win custody of her kids. Her ex had monetary and legal help from activist groups and she had only her own financial resources and her own lawyer.

• Tracy's current husband paid for legal costs to try and win a better custody settlement the next time Tracy's ex sued her because her current husband saw the toll this legal custody fighting was taking on the boys and their education.

• Tracy's children needed a lot of counselling after the father's transition and the father wanted the therapists to be LGBTQ-friendly only and refused counsellors who were more mainstream.

• One of the boys is estranged from his father, Tracy hopes her children can have peace one day but the boys are very angry. Oldest boy doesn't want his father around his own children. Younger children see the ex husband at family holidays with the ex's family present.

• Tracy says her sons have heard some of the negative stories about her marriage and her daughter is shocked that Tracy's ex wanted to breastfeed the daughter when she was a baby.

• Tracy has learned to build strong boundaries to deal with her ex being narcissistic. Tracy speaks out about her experience to counter the narratives being put out by TRAs.

• Tracy's husband had plastic surgery to look like her - he had the doctor copy Tracy's nose.

• Her ex used to watch her put on her makeup and he spent years copying her mannerisms and laugh.

• While they were still married, her ex was in a secret Dom-Sub arrangement where the other woman encouraged him to study Tracy and copy her as well as to do sissy tasks.

• Tracy has a website with info for other women and has helped to draft some Bills for the Texas legislature - one Bill is to make Texas a state where children whose parent takes them to a sanctuary state can be extradited back to Texas. Another Bill is to define women in law. She's also organising a billboard campaign and lobbying of the Texas legislature.

Forgot to add that in the first set of notes, I left out the parts concerned with Tracy's 'origin story' which deals with her deteriorating marriage and her husband's transition.

BW is of the opinion that if women don't want BW in women's spaces then that's women's negative attitude because BW is not a danger to women and thus BW is not taking any blame or responsibility for avoiding women's spaces on his shoulders.

But lots of men could say quite truthfully that they would not be a threat in women's spaces. That is not the point, and it doesn't make BW special. Women do not want men in their spaces, and most people recognise that well established fact.

I agree with you: I know a lot of men who I believe would not be a danger to or disrespectful towards women but I don't want them in women's spaces because they're men.

AG and BW seemed quite happy to agree that women asserting that women's spaces are female only was hardline and not helpful to either trans people or women 🤷‍♀️ BW stated that he tries to use unisex spaces as much as possible but won't be made to feel bad for using female spaces if there's no unisex option.

Agreed, concise and helpful OP!

'Sex mimic' is a new term, it makes sense, says exactly what it is on the tin.

Exactly!

I've learned two new useful terms this week: 'sex mimic' (from Tracy Shannon) and 'sex falsification'. (from Women's Declaration International).

I've never quite understood why some people think Blair White should get a pass. Entitled, sexist man, who don't care about women's consent.

And now you're getting another entitled, sexist man who doesn't care about women's consent, telling women that yet more entitled, sexist men but this time with a misogynistic fetish, can help them!

And now you're getting another entitled, sexist man who doesn't care about women's consent, telling women that yet more entitled, sexist men but this time with a misogynistic fetish, can help them

You can see why when AG approached me, we didn't hit it off. I'm glad Tracy has done it though.

Andrew Gold thinks women need to accept help from trans-identifying men who accept that they have a fetish and/ or accept they are biologically male.

Andrew thinks women holding the line might serve to radicalise trans-identifying men.

So women have to put up with men who are already radicalised to prevent their radicalisation?

Is Andrew dim?

He can fuck off with that.

He approached me wanting to interview a UK based trans widow, who was articulate. I said I wasn't comfortable with auditioning abuse survivors based on articulacy and sent him away with lots of homework.

Andrew thinks women holding the line might serve to radicalise trans-identifying men.

'Don't make me angry, you wouldn't like me when I'm angry'.

Andrew thinks women holding the line might serve to radicalise trans-identifying men.

It's our exes who radicalise us, not the other way around.

"Meet me in the middle says the unjust man"

Its women having to justify boundaries because a series of men find different reasons to remove those boundaries.

Women who critise TRA are seen as toxic, even within GC, women who maintain safeguarding are regarded as unreasonable, to say the least.

The idea that women should work with men who AG sees as not extreme is madness because no man is going to listen to terfs and moderate his behaviour. And this moderate behaviour is still damaging to woman, even if AG doesn’t think it is.

Now you come to mention it:

1. Women are responsible for what men do.

1. Women speaking for themselves are exclusionary and selfish.

1. Women’s opinions are violence against men, thus male violence against women is justified.

1. Men are whatever men say they are and women are whatever men say they are.

10. The worst thing about male violence is that it makes men look bad.

11. Women have all the rights they need: The right to remain silent.

12. Men are the default human. Women are strange subhuman others.

13. Everyone owns and controls women’s bodies except the women themselves.

Its women having to justify boundaries because a series of men find different reasons to remove those boundaries

This is the tale of the trans widow that I've been telling for a long time.

The idea that women should work with men who AG sees as not extreme is madness because no man is going to listen to terfs and moderate his behaviour. And this moderate behaviour is still damaging to woman, even if AG doesn’t think it is.

What he doesn't realise is that these men despise women too. Or maybe he doesn't care.

When he was interviewing Blair White, I got the impression that AG meant HSTS males when he was talking about it being hardline to deny access to all women’s spaces. But, given that he interviewed Tracy Shannon a few hours before interviewing Blair White and still made similar points about being hardline and that not all trans-identifying males are fetishists in that interview with a trans widow, I don’t know exactly what he means.

He seems to believe that trans-identifying males who are not dangerous should be allowed to use women’s spaces but the only definite criteria he seems to have in mind for this lack of danger are males who aren’t sexually attracted to women and males who are not lying about really being males which he seems to believe would make them not fetishists.

When you think about it, what Andrew is saying is the sort of argument we were hearing 8 years ago in the early days of the GRA consultation; however, the arguments formulated by women have moved on significantly from slightly pushing back to a complete ‘No’ to males in women’s spaces. OR as Nancy Mace would frame it, “No balls in our stalls”.