Why did you marry him? Internalised misogyny?

[Xmasbabyxmas]

I'm more of a lurker than a regular poster. Please take this post in the spirit it's intended - i.e. a genuine question id like to understand the answer to. I've noticed on a lot of threads on which the OP is seeking advice following some poor behaviour from current or prospective husband, responders pile on with the "why are you marrying / why did you marry him?" line. It reads like dreadful internalised misogyny to me, as if the OP brought this all on entirely herself. Or is it some sort of MN inside joke I'm not getting?

Posters aren't suggesting it's the Ops fault, it's more that they post a litany of things wrong with their relationship but still seem hell bent on marrying the man. That's face it, if he's not much cop before you marry he isn't going to magically improve after. Sometimes the woman posting has got so used to a lazy/selfish partner they need someone to say this isn't a normal state of affairs and you don't just have to accept it

OP.

You say you are a lurker.

If you want to give better advice than asking why other people say what they say, you are free to do so.

Why do you lurk and say nothing and then accuse others responders of saying the wrong thing?

It can be a legitimate question, along the lines of "what are his good points?" Or "how did you meet?"
There can be a legitimate answer.
The answer might be, say "he looked after me when I had an operation" or "he worked with my dad". All gives useful context to the relationship

Usually because they are only passing the issue and more context is required.

But also because it can cause the poster to pause and think if they haven't considered it recently, we quite often start on a path and dunt reevaluate.

I agree it's often posted in a rather harsh tone.

It's the 'Just World' fallacy. We like to think of the universe as being just and fair, so we assume victims are to blame, because of their bad choices. It's nicer to think that, because then we ourselves feel safe. With a good dollop of hindsight bias thrown in.

But also a healthy wish for individuals to value themselves more.

It does come across harshly sometimes but I think it get it now!. @AlisonDonut Perhaps lurker was the wrong term to use. I do post but only very occasionally if I feel I can genuinely add something. Perhaps you could try the same.

Well, I have never started a thread telling people off for the wrong responses and always tell people who do, to respond as they see fit rather than lurk and then complain.

There is alot of it about.

I think it's a valid question sometimes and an opportunity to re-state the point that women don't owe any man a relationship amd do not need to stay in one just because it's not totally awful (yet). That's not blaming women for men's behaviour.

I do sometimes feel like those responses are very harsh. Probably because I'm one of those who married an absolute arse and didn't realise until later. With hindsight there were red flags, but with poor role models I didn't notice them and thought they were normal.
Even now, after many years divorced, I still get people say things like 'why on earth did you marry him?' if they find out what I went through, like it was my fault and I should have known better. Yes I probably should have but I didn't.
In fairness, it was probably because I was brought up with the idea that my entire reason for existing was to be a wife and mother anyway, so it was still caused by the attitude that women are worth less, without me even realising. I know better now.

In fairness, it was probably because I was brought up with the idea that my entire reason for existing was to be a wife and mother anyway, so it was still caused by the attitude that women are worth less, without me even realising. I know better now.

That's a good answer to the question - it proves that the question can be worth asking, if it can prompt such an answer

It wasn't intended to be telling anyone off or a criticism. In fact far from it. We all have internalised misogyny and that's the problem. I'm certainly guilty of it. It's interesting and useful to think about these things sometimes. Also I posed as a question as I wasn't sure if that's what I was seeing or something else. Other posters have given a range of ideas, which I've found insightful to read, and for which I'm grateful.
@AlisonDonut I'm sorry if you perceived the post as criticism or complaint.

We all have internalised misogyny and that's the problem

Huh? No we don't.

Is this another identity politics self-flagellation thing like we all have privilege or something.

The above should read *part of the problem. Mukti tasking. Badly.

@LetsNCagain do you not think so? At least to some extent, sometimes. Perhaps I don't understand the definition. Perhaps it should say a proportion of women do? I guess that's one of the reasons i posted. To understand if that was an example.

Just looked it up. Internalized misogyny is when women subconsciously project sexist ideas onto other women and even onto themselves. Can you honestly say you have never done that in your life, ever? I assumed everyone did to some extent. Perhaps not.

Can I say no? I'm not an Internalised Misogynist?

Well what's the point of trying not to be misogynistic if you're saying all women are anyway and it can't be avoided?

It sounds like rubbish to me. Ironically, sounds pretty misogynistic

As was your little subtle dig to the pp about not saying anything unless she genuinely adds something. Why have you come to the feminism board with this lecture?

Of course you can say no. I'm not criticising women. Internalised misogyny is intended to be an indictment of the patriarchy isn't it, and the society we're all conditioned in. I guess not everyone agrees with it as a theory though.

I just wanted to ask a question and thought it'd be an interesting discussion. That's all.

responders pile on with the "why are you marrying / why did you marry him?" line.

Those are different questions I think.

"Why did you marry him" is a bit accusatory and blaming - along the lines of "why did you make this mistake?"

But "why are you marrying him" is more along the lines of "why are you continuing with a decision to be even more committed to this man?" Which I think is a valid question.

That's a very good point.

Internalised misogyny is intended to be an indictment of the patriarchy isn't it

I'm not sure, it just sounds like another way to berate women.

The vast majority of women I know (and all the ones I am close to) aren't misogynistic at all. They're fab.

If someone asked me, "why did you marry him" I'd say, "he's kind and hot and hard-working and puts up with me" and a lot of other things.

If someone's answer is "because he reminds me of my abusive dad" there's work she can do. There's cognitive dissonance to explore. There's a focus. The question is supposed to be jarring, because jarring creates change.

Sometimes it's just victim-blaming though, sometimes.

Oh honestly. The posts where the OP is the victim of awful domestic abuse and some idiot comes along and says 'why are you staying with him' or 'why are you exposing your children to this man' or even better 'why did you have children with him'. As if they aren't intelligent enough to understand the dynamics of domestic abuse.
People don't ask as a genuine question. It's a judgement and a victim blaming one.

I have seen this many times.
Well why did you have children with someone who was violent and abusive?

Because he wasn't violent and abusive until the children came along.
Because, having come from a home with a lot of emotional abuse maybe I missed some subtle signs and had low self esteem because of being treated badly during childhood.

I didn't just think it would be really fun to end up raising my children on my own and being judged for having chosen a rubbish dad for them whilst he is never judged and is seen as a hero for seeing them 3 days a month (yes courts still want violent parents to see their children)

The posts I see with "why are you marrying him" questions usually state that there are so many red flags and that the OP is worth so much better than this male. They're not putting her down at all.