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Original poster

It’s Norfolk Libraries Again! Vigil for Afghan Women!

16 replies

CarobBean72 · 06/12/2024 18:01

Some of us Norfolk women are holding a silent vigil in Norwich tomorrow in solidarity with Afghan Women & Girls, supporting WRNAfghanistan.

One of our members took this poster into her local library on Monday to ask if they could display it.

Lots of humming & hawing & “Well, if it was up to me…” from someone apparently unable to say who it was up to.

Because she’s a warrior woman, she went back next day. Kept waiting a long while as staff came out of the office, scrutinised her, & disappeared without speaking to her. But finally they gave her an email address that doesn’t appear on their website.

She got the reply yesterday. It was a “No”.

Apparently they “can’t support campaigns” - a flat lie, as their Facebook page currently features a campaign (a good cause, fwiw).

They can’t be “political”.

We are non-partisan, and we welcome women of any religion and none.

Plus I don’t believe any political party in Norfolk thinks the Taliban’s oppression of women is super - though perhaps some think it would end if only the women “identified” as men instead.

And they must be “balanced”.

We’d love to know what balance they want to see, between women having rights, and women having NO rights.

We’d like to ask what their thinking is here, but on the hellsite formerly known as Twit they’ve untagged themselves from all comment.

To be fair, we ARE asking the population to do something.

To remember Afghan Women and Girls.

That’s all.

But apparently that’s not ok in a library which claims “everyone is welcome here.”

Some may remember that Norfolk Libraries featured here, when they hosted the body-mutilation cult “Trans Joy” exhibition.

Very balanced.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5048498-5048498-libraries-promoting-body-mutilation-as-joy-in-norfolk

It’s Norfolk Libraries Again! Vigil for Afghan Women!
OP posts:
PaterPower · 07/12/2024 06:04

You may be right to link it to gender issues but I suspect they’re more worried about accusations of racism / being openly critical of Islam in this particular instance (even though you’d hope not too many Muslims in this country would want a similar interpretation of their faith for themselves).

For what it’s worth, you’d have my support today if I was anywhere near Norfolk - the women and girls of Afghanistan don’t get anywhere near enough coverage for what they’re being forced to endure.

Rightsraptor · 07/12/2024 08:03

They've just given you a one word answer 'no' so they can't be caught out later. If they'd said 'no, we don't want to be accused of Islamophobia' and you'd had Muslims coming up to you at the vigil saying 'totally support you as it is not Islamic to treat women in this way', the library really would've looked like knobs with bells on, or perhaps Islamophobic themselves.

There are vigil in northern cities with high Muslims populations: I'll be at one and will report back any comments I hear

Ereshkigalangcleg · 07/12/2024 08:25

That's idiotic. I hope you remind them of this if they put up a Pride poster.

TheywontletmehavethenameIwant · 07/12/2024 09:08

Given that one of the many things the Taliban are deny the women of Afghanistan is an education you would think a library would support a vigil for them.

Maybe the organisers should hold the vigil to right outside the library.

Original poster
CarobBean72 · 07/12/2024 17:56

Rightsraptor · 07/12/2024 08:03

They've just given you a one word answer 'no' so they can't be caught out later. If they'd said 'no, we don't want to be accused of Islamophobia' and you'd had Muslims coming up to you at the vigil saying 'totally support you as it is not Islamic to treat women in this way', the library really would've looked like knobs with bells on, or perhaps Islamophobic themselves.

There are vigil in northern cities with high Muslims populations: I'll be at one and will report back any comments I hear

We had Muslim women with us, & an Afghan friend (unfortunately working & couldn’t join us) not only said he supported us 100% but confirmed the WRN translation into Farsi & Pashto of our slogan “Afghan Women deserve better than this” was perfect.

For context, the Women’s Rights Network & Sex Matters websites were blocked on the Norfolk Libraries wifi - for “sensitive, extremist or unlawful content” a few years ago.

Several of us complained at the time but I don’t know when they unblocked them.

OP posts:
Original poster
CarobBean72 · 07/12/2024 17:56

TheywontletmehavethenameIwant · 07/12/2024 09:08

Given that one of the many things the Taliban are deny the women of Afghanistan is an education you would think a library would support a vigil for them.

Maybe the organisers should hold the vigil to right outside the library.

We were!

OP posts:
SinnerBoy · 07/12/2024 18:01

Dear me, what a pathetically sad state of affairs. As mentioned, they broke their necks to put on an offensive trans joy display.

Perhaps you could get in touch with the councillor lady, who responded last time. Her name escapes me.

lcakethereforeIam · 07/12/2024 21:07

OP this has really annoyed me. In your shoes I'd consider bringing this to the attention of the newspapers. The Telegraph would probably eat it up.

TempestTost · 08/12/2024 02:16

It sounds like they are being inconsistent.

It's a bit of an odd claim nonetheless. I manage a library, and I'm pretty careful about anything political or socially controversial being associated with the library itself.

We do have a public notice board and my general approach is that I put up community posters of any kind we are asked to unless they are getting towards being offensive territory. That is a difficult line to draw occasionally though. So if there were pro Palestinian rally, say, and pro-Israeli one, I'd put up both, or neither.

Do you think they felt like it was likely to bring scrutiny to the library?

If you wanted to take it further I'd look for clarification from the library head, or their board if they have one.

Original poster
CarobBean72 · 08/12/2024 16:38

TempestTost · 08/12/2024 02:16

It sounds like they are being inconsistent.

It's a bit of an odd claim nonetheless. I manage a library, and I'm pretty careful about anything political or socially controversial being associated with the library itself.

We do have a public notice board and my general approach is that I put up community posters of any kind we are asked to unless they are getting towards being offensive territory. That is a difficult line to draw occasionally though. So if there were pro Palestinian rally, say, and pro-Israeli one, I'd put up both, or neither.

Do you think they felt like it was likely to bring scrutiny to the library?

If you wanted to take it further I'd look for clarification from the library head, or their board if they have one.

We had an official reply (email shared on our X feed with identifying details removed).

Apparently it lacks “nuance” & may give the impression of “bias”.

Very important not the be biased against women having no rights at all, eh?

From WRNs around the country I hear other libraries have accepted the exact same poster for display on their community notice boards.

We were joined by some Muslim ladies & an Afghan man gave us a massive thumbs up - and conformed the translation into Farsi was correct.

But yes, we’ll take it further.

OP posts:
Sazzasez · 10/12/2024 14:55

Several of us have now received an email saying they could not take the poster because they have “firm guidelines”.

They did not link to the guidelines, & no guidelines can be located on their website.

We have asked for a link to the “firm guidelines” (which I’m sure they are not frantically workshopping right now, that would be cynical, wouldn’t it?)

It would be useful to compare them with the stuff they actually do accept, as well as helping us

Meanwhile, one local authority displayed vigil posters prominently in their libraries, & in another the vigil actually moved into the central library…

Ludovico · 10/12/2024 17:08

Thank you for asking and highlighting this. We are in a weird time when we can’t highlight extreme abuse of women because it might offend people - so we are expected to turn the other cheek.

TempestTost · 11/12/2024 01:58

It makes me wonder - what is it they think they are protecting?

It doesn't really seem to align with any of the other stupid progressive positions, which I imagine is why the other libraries have no issue with the poster.

Do they not really understand what it's about?

Hairyesterdaygonetoday · 13/12/2024 00:05

CarobBean72 · 06/12/2024 18:01

Some of us Norfolk women are holding a silent vigil in Norwich tomorrow in solidarity with Afghan Women & Girls, supporting WRNAfghanistan.

One of our members took this poster into her local library on Monday to ask if they could display it.

Lots of humming & hawing & “Well, if it was up to me…” from someone apparently unable to say who it was up to.

Because she’s a warrior woman, she went back next day. Kept waiting a long while as staff came out of the office, scrutinised her, & disappeared without speaking to her. But finally they gave her an email address that doesn’t appear on their website.

She got the reply yesterday. It was a “No”.

Apparently they “can’t support campaigns” - a flat lie, as their Facebook page currently features a campaign (a good cause, fwiw).

They can’t be “political”.

We are non-partisan, and we welcome women of any religion and none.

Plus I don’t believe any political party in Norfolk thinks the Taliban’s oppression of women is super - though perhaps some think it would end if only the women “identified” as men instead.

And they must be “balanced”.

We’d love to know what balance they want to see, between women having rights, and women having NO rights.

We’d like to ask what their thinking is here, but on the hellsite formerly known as Twit they’ve untagged themselves from all comment.

To be fair, we ARE asking the population to do something.

To remember Afghan Women and Girls.

That’s all.

But apparently that’s not ok in a library which claims “everyone is welcome here.”

Some may remember that Norfolk Libraries featured here, when they hosted the body-mutilation cult “Trans Joy” exhibition.

Very balanced.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5048498-5048498-libraries-promoting-body-mutilation-as-joy-in-norfolk

The ‘trans joy’ thread seems to have disappeared …

Sazzasez · 13/12/2024 11:26

Hairyesterdaygonetoday · 13/12/2024 00:05

The ‘trans joy’ thread seems to have disappeared …

Show quote history

I think it’s here!

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5048498-5048498-libraries-promoting-body-mutilation-as-joy-in-norfolk

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