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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

A bit of rewriting history going on- MN didn't exist before 2020?

156 replies

GrumpyMenopausalWombWielder · 02/12/2024 14:29

https://x.com/janeclarejones/status/1863356570991743187?s=46

"This is not how the history went. The majority of the faction that is now known as the ultras turned up after 2020, largely in 2022/23. The bulk of the original grassroots of the movement were left wing feminists. That is, what happened is that a group of people who turned up later attacked the core of the original movement who had stood against trans ideology, in the first place, by themselves. And who, quite understandably, were pretty pissed off."

You'd think the fact one of the people involved in the FWS court case was a MNetter, would avoid this selective rewriting of history on who did what & when, as well as why women are still pushing for repeal of the GRA despite all the very learned professionals telling them to stop being so stupid and quiet down on that.

All the early meetings, Venice Allen ones & WPUK, were linked on these very pages, and MNetters made the bulk of the women attending. I remember getting to know people & we all eventually confirmed who we were on MN back then. This attempt to frame women who just won't shut up about repeal of the GRA as Jenny come latelys who had nothing to do with any achievements or wins, when so much of the grassroots movement were women who gathered here, raised consciousness here, organised here & networked here, is just wrong.

I'm getting pretty tired of the narrative being pushed that it's only women who are late to this, who are right wing, bigots, trolls or keyboard warriors who did feck all & have achieved nothing, who keep pushing repeal. I'd much rather the substance of the arguments were tackled instead of the endless high school level rhetoric that follows from someone questioning law fare tactics.

The GRA is bad legislation. It was when it was brought in & remains so now - even more so. Questioning why it is beyond touch is no more an ultra position than refusing to bastardise language or deny reality. But wiping out the place Mumsnet has in the story of how women fought back is a particularly stupid thing to do.

Mumsnet don't even want to be seen as playing the part in this that this place did - they certainly tried to suppress women's language & opinions, and banned lots of women who stood firm. They didn't slope off never to be seen again. They got active & were the backbone of the grassroots movement that's shifted the dial in the U.K.

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AdventCarols · 03/12/2024 22:34

TempestTost · 03/12/2024 22:20

That set of characteristics seems remarkably broad. Genetic characteristics covers quite a lot.

But as we are not part of the EU they are also irrelevant.

LilyBartsHatShop · 04/12/2024 05:20

I'm not in the UK, so looking at whether the focus is on repealing your GRA or not is not immediately practical for me as it is for most posters here.
But I really do believe, even if you had a magic wand and could repeal the GRA tomorrow, it wouldn't be time to pack up and go home.
I live in an absolute backwater in the second most conservative state in Australia, so my experience of trans activism in my daily life is skewed. Recently I travelled over east, to the big metropolitan centres, where I have relatives and a dearly loved godchild in their 20s. I was really surprised at the difference in trans activism that I encountered there. There isn't a focus on changing sex - the belief is that sex just does not matter. I think the efforts of activists have already shifted, from making women-only spaces accessible to trans women, to making all public and semi-public spaces and organisation and services completely desegregated, neutral with regards to sex. A desire for women(female)-only spaces or services will be framed as oddly perverse. Someone like Butterflyhatched is as out of touch with the new kind of trans activism as our gender recognition acts themselves are.
In conversations about gender identity and transition, saying, "but you can't change sex" to the young people I was talking to struck them as being as odd and irrelevant as saying, "but you can't change your DNA" in a conversation about immigration.

During my holiday I developed a greater respect for Sex Matters because I can see they've hit on the nub of the emerging debate.

illinivich · 04/12/2024 10:41

There isn't a focus on changing sex - the belief is that sex just does not matter.

Thats what the GRA does - make sex undefined, irrelevant.

If the sex on a birth certificate can be changed, years after a man has fathered children, what is sex?

Middle aged men and kids saying they dont see sex is just people who dont want and dont understand safeguarding. Every youth movement in every generation has middle aged men trying their luck.

Talkinpeace · 04/12/2024 17:46

Where are the "sex does not matter" people
when women in Afghanistan are denied midwives ?

AdventCarols · 04/12/2024 18:03

Talkinpeace · 04/12/2024 17:46

Where are the "sex does not matter" people
when women in Afghanistan are denied midwives ?

You misunderstand. Sex does not matter because women don’t matter.

kiterunning · 04/12/2024 18:35

Radicalised in 2016.
Sat down with friends/family to warn them about what was happening only to be met with scorn and disbelief.
2024 and they are all rather sheepishly on board.

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