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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

And the backpedaling has begun

52 replies

Hoardasurass · 01/12/2024 08:38

There's a couple of quotes from the hospital including that they never ment for men to breastfeed babies but were only really talking about lesbians which are completely disturbed by the author of this article by quoting the trusts own guidance 😀

NHS trust which claimed trans women could breastfeed makes U-turn https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14144063/NHS-trust-trans-women-breastfeed-mothers-sussex.html?ito=native_share_article-nativemenubutton

NHS trust which claimed trans women could breastfeed makes U-turn

A leaked letter from within the University Hospitals Sussex NHS Foundation Trust suggested milk produced by trans women was comparable to that produced by a woman following birth.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14144063/NHS-trust-trans-women-breastfeed-mothers-sussex.html?ito=native_share_article-nativemenubutton

OP posts:
Thread gallery
7
Byjimminy · 01/12/2024 11:02

Another big thank you to the posters on this board for continuing to diligently piece together the evidence on this topic.

And to Milli Hall and Emma Thomas for making the challenges they have, in seek of the truth.

maltravers · 01/12/2024 12:05

Newpan’s post reminds me of that bit in Animal Farm where the pigs secretly rewrite the commandments/rules on the wall in the middle of the night to “revise” these and make them more convenient and better aligned to their new approach.

Helleofabore · 01/12/2024 12:15

NewPanDrawer · 01/12/2024 08:52

There's a couple of quotes from the hospital including that they never ment for men to breastfeed babies but were only really talking about lesbians

It's always seemed quite obvious that it was about transmen struggling with dysphoria exacerbated by the word breast than about transwomen. Whenever this is pointed out the threads here fly into a rage and become overwhelmed with lurid posts about men secreting chemically-induced toxic pus from their male nipples and becoming sexually aroused from feeding babies. It's really Mumsnet transphobia at its worst.

It's always seemed quite obvious that it was about transmen struggling with dysphoria exacerbated by the word breast than about transwomen. Whenever this is pointed out the threads here fly into a rage and become overwhelmed with lurid posts about men secreting chemically-induced toxic pus from their male nipples and becoming sexually aroused from feeding babies. It's really Mumsnet transphobia at its worst.

What was obvious that it was about female people. when the letter posted included mention of a study about male producing a substance from their nipple?

Seems to me that you are the one who is mistaken. For your point to be consistent with the accurate interpretation of the letter no such study would have been listed and the word female would have been used. After all, we are constantly told people with transgender identities do not deny their sex and can acknowledge such facts.

And the very existence of those lurid posts, which I note you don’t deny relate to very real studies and very real self published anecdotes of male people doing just what was posted, presents enough doubt to show your statement ‘it was obvious’ as being rather doubtful.

Here it has already been kindly posted but just in case you missed it, here it is again.

https://policyexchange.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/Policy-Exchange-Biology-Matters-COTS-Letter.pdf

Or maybe you never read the letter the article referred to and thought to post to shame those who do have the background information and simply disagree with you anyway.

I mean, you declared it was ‘obvious’ when it would only be obvious to someone determined to ignore the evidence in the letter itself.

https://policyexchange.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/Policy-Exchange-Biology-Matters-COTS-Letter.pdf

Helleofabore · 01/12/2024 16:14

Does anyone also trust this NHS trust to mean only female people when they say Lesbian?

CandyLeBonBon · 01/12/2024 16:37

NewPanDrawer · 01/12/2024 08:52

There's a couple of quotes from the hospital including that they never ment for men to breastfeed babies but were only really talking about lesbians

It's always seemed quite obvious that it was about transmen struggling with dysphoria exacerbated by the word breast than about transwomen. Whenever this is pointed out the threads here fly into a rage and become overwhelmed with lurid posts about men secreting chemically-induced toxic pus from their male nipples and becoming sexually aroused from feeding babies. It's really Mumsnet transphobia at its worst.

Well this is awkward...Blush

RufustheFactuaIReindeer · 01/12/2024 17:34

Helleofabore · 01/12/2024 16:14

Does anyone also trust this NHS trust to mean only female people when they say Lesbian?

Nope

i don’t trust them when they say woman or female

maltravers · 01/12/2024 17:54

Helleofabore · 01/12/2024 16:14

Does anyone also trust this NHS trust to mean only female people when they say Lesbian?

No, the NHS has forfeited any right to trust in this matter thanks to scandals like Annex B/the TW rapist, who they said couldn’t have raped their victim as they were a woman. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/03/17/hospital-told-police-patient-not-raped-alleged-attacker-transgender/

KendraTheVampyrSlayer · 01/12/2024 18:03

NewPanDrawer · 01/12/2024 08:52

There's a couple of quotes from the hospital including that they never ment for men to breastfeed babies but were only really talking about lesbians

It's always seemed quite obvious that it was about transmen struggling with dysphoria exacerbated by the word breast than about transwomen. Whenever this is pointed out the threads here fly into a rage and become overwhelmed with lurid posts about men secreting chemically-induced toxic pus from their male nipples and becoming sexually aroused from feeding babies. It's really Mumsnet transphobia at its worst.

You've missed all the blokes posting photos of themselves abusing babies by feeding them pus from their nipples then?

WandsOut · 01/12/2024 18:44

NewPanDrawer · 01/12/2024 08:52

There's a couple of quotes from the hospital including that they never ment for men to breastfeed babies but were only really talking about lesbians

It's always seemed quite obvious that it was about transmen struggling with dysphoria exacerbated by the word breast than about transwomen. Whenever this is pointed out the threads here fly into a rage and become overwhelmed with lurid posts about men secreting chemically-induced toxic pus from their male nipples and becoming sexually aroused from feeding babies. It's really Mumsnet transphobia at its worst.

Total blithe ignorance of what men with a fetish will do to get that fetish fulfilled whilst taking aim at the women who sound the alarm.

It's so mind numbingly predictable.

Chariothorses · 01/12/2024 20:15

If you look on the children of transitioner's website, they have added a new article today, called ' the la leche loophole', with the link to the original NHs policy stating it referred to ' transwomen' , which the Trust is now stating never existed. It gives the history of this, and the Trust is indeed backpedalling .

Catsmere · 01/12/2024 20:21

Soontobe60 · 01/12/2024 09:38

Why do you think it’s ‘transphobia’ to know that males with fetishes should never be encouraged to force babies to suck their nipples? weird!

Equating calling out paedophilia with "transphobia" is quite the self-own ...

Chariothorses · 01/12/2024 20:22

Cots also ensured in their Foi request , published in the same article, that the Trust had to confirm the sex of those referred to ie biological males, whom the Trust call 'transwomen', due to previous Nhs 'obfustication'. Hope that helps- sorry I can' t link to it but easily found.

Chariothorses · 01/12/2024 20:27

@Helleofabore and the Foi response confirms the female sex of those who can breastfeed too.

ChaChaChooey · 01/12/2024 20:31

Maybe @NewPanDrawer works for the Trust?

If so, full marks for speed at which the deflecting comment was posted but zero marks for it’s accuracy.

Unfortunately for the history revisionists, the terves learned how to archive webpages a while back.

hamstersarse · 01/12/2024 20:34

I am noticing quite a bit of backpedaling and what is common in them all is they never actually come clean, they just switch position and hope everyone forgets

I just don’t get it, most of us have fallen for the bullshit at some point, even if it was momentarily. We all understand what it feels like to have to admit you were wrong

maltravers · 01/12/2024 20:44

Narcissists don’t admit when they get it wrong. I’m not sure it’s really a change of opinion anyway, it’s a change of attack line.

Fimofriend · 01/12/2024 21:40

I just want to thank everyone who helped ensure that the NHS' hypocrisy and aid in the war against women came to light.

HoppityBun · 01/12/2024 21:45

I thought they claimed that lactating men produced milk that was as good as women’s breast milk?

Pussycat22 · 01/12/2024 21:49

Oh God.

Helleofabore · 01/12/2024 21:58

HoppityBun · 01/12/2024 21:45

I thought they claimed that lactating men produced milk that was as good as women’s breast milk?

I believe the letter stated that.

And it is false. Because it has not been tested even adequately for drug and male hormonal interactions, it requires much higher doses and for longer periods of the drugs needed to induce the lactation that have been tested, and there is absolutely no feedback from infant to male to modify the substance plus the supply has quickly been surpassed by demand, yet the male people in studies seem to have persisted in exclusively feeding when supply has been noted to be inadequate.

That the NHS fails to consider these issues yet signposts at least one study about how supposedly equal in nutrition the male produced substance is , is red flag territory. It shows that the NHS trust has not centred the infant at all.

Chariothorses · 02/12/2024 08:04

Here's the link to Children of Transitioners' report ( the quote from the original NHS policy confirming it included 'transwomen' originally is at the end), and further information about how hard it is to get major organisations to address child abuse and safeguarding issues involving offenders who say they are trans, when they are trained by trans lobby groups.
childrenoftransitioners.org/2024/12/01/the-la-leche-loophole/

The La Leche Loophole

When doctors are being deliberately misleading on an issue of child safeguarding, it’s time for the authorities to intervene. Firstly, a huge THANK YOU to the brave (ex) trustees of La Leche for th…

https://childrenoftransitioners.org/2024/12/01/the-la-leche-loophole/

heathspeedwell · 02/12/2024 10:07

The trouble is that this kind of thing is so shocking that it sounds made up. And certain people in the NHS and the BBC aren't just complicit, they are driving it.

BonfireLady · 02/12/2024 11:51

The trouble is that this kind of thing is so shocking that it sounds made up.

This is a significant part of the problem. You kind of have to stumble upon it enough times by yourself to think "this is odd".

The story of "Princess Mom" is a bit of an eye opener:

https://grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/princess-mom

This one too:

https://reduxx.info/uk-trans-identified-male-who-sparked-backlash-after-using-womens-changing-room-during-teen-swim-meet-engaged-with-erotic-breastfeeding-account/

many of us were on the MN threads (there were 2 of them) as this story gradually unfolded in the press. I don't think the breastfeeding bit made it in to the mainstream press but one of the MN threads has screenshots on it from Anne's online profile.

I can't remember the name of the TW who talked about how great it felt and then said "don't judge me" (I mentioned this upthread) but that's out there too, written in the first person.

Then there's one of the reasonable (and I do agree with a lot of what this TW says) regulars at the Genspect conferences who talks freely on X about hoping to experience breastfeeding in future. I did ask a question about this on X once, given how odd it sounded when describing a future desire to breastfeed but I didn't hear back.

There are lots of examples. But yes, it all sounds too mad to be true. Or perhaps like it's all a misunderstanding and completely harmless, like this family friendly entertainment (yes, this was on the family show Ru Paul's Drag Race):

https://x.com/RuPaulsDragRace/status/1680642200969834496?t=CC_tPfMfeucwarvvx2Ke5A&s=19

UK: Trans-Identified Male Who Sparked Backlash After Using Women's Changing Room During Teen Swim Meet Engaged With Erotic "Breastfeeding" Account - Reduxx

A trans-identified male who sparked outrage after demanding access to the women’s changing rooms at a Sheffield hotel previously engaged with a disturbing fetish account creating breastfeeding erotica. Anne Coombes, 65, first made headlines last week a...

https://reduxx.info/uk-trans-identified-male-who-sparked-backlash-after-using-womens-changing-room-during-teen-swim-meet-engaged-with-erotic-breastfeeding-account

maltravers · 02/12/2024 11:55

That Ru Paul clip is gross. Could they make the misogyny any clearer?