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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

British transport police

57 replies

Hoardasurass · 23/11/2024 09:50

BTP have issued new guidance on strip searches and under it any man with a GRC can strip search any women. But it's OK as the equality act (and the haldane ruling) says that the GRC makes the man female 🤬

Transgender police officers can strip-search women https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14116705/Transgender-officers-strip-search-women-police.html?ito=native_share_article-nativemenubutton

Transgender police officers can strip-search women

The British Transport Police policy allows recently transitioned officers to intimately search women if they have been issued a gender recognition certificate.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14116705/Transgender-officers-strip-search-women-police.html?ito=native_share_article-nativemenubutton

OP posts:
ArabellaScott · 23/11/2024 09:53

Fuck that.

ArabellaScott · 23/11/2024 09:56

'BTP officers are told they can also wear 'uniform in whichever gender they choose' and use the changing rooms and showers of their chosen gender identity.'

Harassedevictee · 23/11/2024 10:11

That is not how I understand the Haldene judgement. I thought if a man has a GRC they are a “legal woman” if they don’t have a GRC they are male.

Signalbox · 23/11/2024 10:23

🤮

Hoardasurass · 23/11/2024 10:26

Harassedevictee · 23/11/2024 10:11

That is not how I understand the Haldene judgement. I thought if a man has a GRC they are a “legal woman” if they don’t have a GRC they are male.

Yes that's what the judgment says and it's why the BTP are saying that any man who has a GRC can strip-search women, because that man with a GRC is now a woman so it's ok

OP posts:
Harassedevictee · 23/11/2024 10:37

It’s not ok and thankfully very few people have a GRC. This is why next weeks FWS case is so important

Helleofabore · 23/11/2024 10:54

This is grim. But I hope this and the Darlington nurses will start to tip the crescendo to a cacophony that will force through the changes to protect all female people - women and girls.

Signalbox · 23/11/2024 10:57

Harassedevictee · 23/11/2024 10:37

It’s not ok and thankfully very few people have a GRC. This is why next weeks FWS case is so important

It’s not ok and thankfully very few people have a GRC.

Until Labour make it easier for men to become “legal” women. I wonder when they will dare to tackle GRA reform as promised.

BobbyBiscuits · 23/11/2024 10:59

Why the fuck should a glorified ticket inspector be feeling the urge to strip search anyone?! What would they do, have you drop your draws and bend over in the middle of the crowded 8.29 to Paddington? What a load of absolute clowns. Apparently the normal police all look down on the BTP as they're less trained and valued. I would not let anyone fucking strip search me anyway?!

ImNunTheWiser · 23/11/2024 11:08

Oh this BTP?

https://www.kentlive.news/news/kent-news/kent-british-transport-police-officer-9706472

They sound marvellous don’t they? And at the end of the above linked article they have the cheek to state:
“His actions do not represent the values of British Transport Police and there is no place for this kind of behaviour in our force. Officers on duty are there to protect the public, not facilitate their own sexual gratification. It is for this reason he has been dismissed without notice”

Officers on duty are there to protect the public, not facilitate their own sexual gratification.

Unless that sexual gratification includes men strip searching women of course, then crack on.

PC sacked for sending photos and video of his genitals and 'masturbating'

The police officer also used police equipment 'inappropriately'

https://www.kentlive.news/news/kent-news/kent-british-transport-police-officer-9706472

Signalbox · 23/11/2024 11:12

BobbyBiscuits · 23/11/2024 10:59

Why the fuck should a glorified ticket inspector be feeling the urge to strip search anyone?! What would they do, have you drop your draws and bend over in the middle of the crowded 8.29 to Paddington? What a load of absolute clowns. Apparently the normal police all look down on the BTP as they're less trained and valued. I would not let anyone fucking strip search me anyway?!

I had always assumed that BTP deal with serious crime that takes place on the transport network. Why would they not have the same power to strip search as the regular police?

AlisonDonut · 23/11/2024 11:13

For shits and giggles?

RoyalCorgi · 23/11/2024 11:15

Harassedevictee · 23/11/2024 10:37

It’s not ok and thankfully very few people have a GRC. This is why next weeks FWS case is so important

And in fact the Haldane judgement, as I understand it, doesn't cover situations like this - it's confined to the context of female quotas on public boards. So if you have a quota of, say, 25% women on a board, then that includes men with a GRC saying they are female. But for the purposes of eg using changing rooms or carrying out strip searches, a GRC doesn't make you female.

If I've misunderstood it, hopefully someone can explain.

But, as you say, all should be clarified - for better or worse - by the Supreme Court when it makes its ruling on the For Women Scotland case.

Hoardasurass · 23/11/2024 11:18

I agree it's far from ok @Harassedevictee I was just explaining why BTP say it's OK.
This policy is just more evidence of why we need to repeal the GRA and amend the equality act especially if the upcoming SC case goes against us.

OP posts:
Hoardasurass · 23/11/2024 11:24

RoyalCorgi · 23/11/2024 11:15

And in fact the Haldane judgement, as I understand it, doesn't cover situations like this - it's confined to the context of female quotas on public boards. So if you have a quota of, say, 25% women on a board, then that includes men with a GRC saying they are female. But for the purposes of eg using changing rooms or carrying out strip searches, a GRC doesn't make you female.

If I've misunderstood it, hopefully someone can explain.

But, as you say, all should be clarified - for better or worse - by the Supreme Court when it makes its ruling on the For Women Scotland case.

It applies for everything but you CAN use an exemption to prevent males from sports and toilets/changing facilities IF you want to. There's no exemption for strip-searches in the act nor is there any requirement to use the exemptions that are in it

OP posts:
FlirtsWithRhinos · 23/11/2024 11:25

So fucking offensive, and morally and logically incoherent.

It's not the word "woman" that matters, it's the thing the word labels. And all the legal fictions in the world don't change the reality of the things in the world.

We don't want to restrict access to our bodies when we are unclothed to people who use the same label as us. What on earth relevance does a shared label, a shared collection of sounds, have to the physical state of being unclothed? If the name "woman" is truly disconnected from the female body as trans women claim, why should it confer any more right to access unclothed female bodies than any other label we may share with the opposite sex, like "British" or "tired" or "Christmassy"?

We want to restrict access to people who have the same bodies as us because they share the specific vulnerability/quality that is significant in that situation.

That's all, It's that simple.

Everyone understands this even if they pretend not to, even if they pretend that the word "woman" is an opaque barrier behind which no one can see any differences.

So I don't care if trans women and male non-binaries have every single other thing in common with women except their bodies (spoiler, they don't, but even if they did), in the specific instance of bodily vulnerability it's not all those other things that are relevant, it's the body.

If a GRC makes a man a legal "woman" that is not a reason to give him access to unclothed women, it's a reason to say that whatever this word "woman" means, it no longer has anything to do with sex and therefore gives no right to any segregation that was established based on sex.

If law does not currently reflect this simple and obvious truthm, it simply shows that at times the law is indeed an ass.

MrDarlingtonsPie · 23/11/2024 11:52

BobbyBiscuits · 23/11/2024 10:59

Why the fuck should a glorified ticket inspector be feeling the urge to strip search anyone?! What would they do, have you drop your draws and bend over in the middle of the crowded 8.29 to Paddington? What a load of absolute clowns. Apparently the normal police all look down on the BTP as they're less trained and valued. I would not let anyone fucking strip search me anyway?!

Not related to the op but just wanted to say that my neighbour’s ex husband is transport police and they go through more training than home office police as they are normal police officers but with an added specialism and they also deal with very, very traumatic incidents for obvious reasons if you have a think about the railway and the kinds of things that sadly happen. I’ve seen the impact on him of some of it first hand so would never disrespect that job, train tickets are probably quite literally the least of his worries.

JellySaurus · 23/11/2024 12:07

It aligns with what the Met do:

www.met.police.uk/foi-ai/metropolitan-police/disclosure-2024/february-2024/npcc-guidance-on-same-sex-searches/

Bonkers. Males may not carry out intimate searches on females - unless they have a piece of paper. Which, by the way, nobody is allowed to ask for.

ArabellaScott · 23/11/2024 12:30

So, any policeman who wants a certificate that allows them to strip search women at will can get one for a fiver.

ScrollingLeaves · 23/11/2024 12:44

Maybe everyone should write to their MP and also Wes Streeting ( just because he seems to be able to understand the issue).

theilltemperedqueenofspacetime · 23/11/2024 13:02

Are they unaware that human rights case law has made it unnecessary to undergo fertility-damaging treatment in order to get a GRC?

BobbyBiscuits · 23/11/2024 13:10

@MrDarlingtonsPie well I'm certainly not in the know. And no disrespect to your neighbours ex husband. I witnessed a man killing himself in front of a train and his body was squashed about one metre from where I was standing. This was when I was five. So yeah, the railways can be a scary place. I still wouldn't be strip searched willingly. But I guess I'm not a criminal.

Rightsraptor · 23/11/2024 13:26

@BobbyBiscuits - you don't have to be a criminal to be strip searched, you merely have to be suspected of being one. So that means each and every one of us.

The law lecturer Michael Foran mentioned on one of his recent podcasts about what is sex, that the authorities decided that women would be fine with being searched by a 'transwoman' so long as 'she'd' had genital surgery.

I wonder if they asked any women. I'd bet the farm the answer is no.

Hoppinggreen · 23/11/2024 13:44

Family member had a horrific experience with the BTP, she was a badly injured victim who was harrassed and shouted at to change her statement to support arresting someone who had certainly NOT hurt her rather than the people who had.
She refused to change her statement despite being very frightened by male officers and then BTP refused to proceed any further with the case.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 23/11/2024 14:28

Time to challenge the senior officers who write and push this stuff. Surely being responsible for signing off on this suggests they have some seriously dangerous attitudes to women if they're promoting state sanctioned sexual assaults? We know there are far too many sex offending / abusive men in the police and things like this make it evident that they must have been condoned / enabled by senior officers.