NCHI's - it's all kicking off!!

[lcakethereforeIam]

A Telegraph journalist was doorsteps by the Police on Remembrance Sunday for a year old tweet. They wouldn't tell her what the tweet was or who the complainant...sorry...victim was. I think it's may actually have been recorded as a crime now?

Murdo Fraser (autocorrupted to 'murder', add an 'ous' and that might be actually how he's feeling) has failed, so far, to get the NCHI recorded for his non-binary/cats tweet, removed. Safe to say he's not giving up.

Labour seem set on removing the ffs tone it down on the NCHIs guidance given to the Police.

The there's this article on Maya Forstater's legal troubles. Previous threads have been taken down for....no doubt excellent reasons. As it's reported in a newspaper I can't see why we can can't talk about it, within reason. I've taken the precaution of a new thread though jic.

https://archive.ph/o8yD8 none paywall click indisslink

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/11/13/gender-critical-maya-forstater-hate-crime-investigation/

Eta link and bad pun

I think the police and government have lost proportion.

We need the police to monitor potential terrorism, it is possible to incite violence, or groom others into commiting violence.

But that shouldn't lead to police officers investigation tweets quickly deleted a year ago. Where is the evidence that AP would harm or is grooming anyone? To monitor individuals there should be a very good case to do so. Otherwise the police are just collecting data knowing its not solving crime.

This is interesting in showing what's going on in government: https://archive.ph/VkAzR

A leaked Home Office report labels the belief that “Western culture is under threat from mass migration” as an “extreme right-wing” view, GB News can reveal.

Discussing “extreme right-wing” views, the Home Office cited “Cultural Nationalism” as an example, defining the term as the “main belief” being that “'Western culture is under threat from mass migration’”.

The paper warned that: “right-wing extremist narratives (particularly around immigration and policing) are in some cases 'leaking' into mainstream debates.”

“Claims of 'two-tier' policing, where two groups are allegedly treated differently after similar behaviour is a recent example,” the report continued.

It was circulated across Whitehall in October and outlined different forms of "extremism" in Britain.

However, a source distanced the Government from the controversial report. They said: “This paper was not approved by Home Office Ministers.

I know incitement is a real thing but it also seems wrong for someone to be prosecuted because someone else might do something criminal because of something you said or wrote or did. Especially as it's applied so unevenly. If what you are saying is a direct called to action ('kill the unbelievers', 'punch the terf', etc.), perhaps that's one thing but an observation, even if unpleasant, even if wrong, is something else. I've said unpleasant things (not often, because I'm lovely😊). I'm fairly certain there may have been examples on these very boards before MN took them down, although that won't save me. Say, I called Humza (former First Minister) a name, it's entirely possible. The Police might take the view that someone else, who I've never met, never interacted with directly, who probably doesn't exist, might read my words. This person might interpret my name calling as a call to action and to stop that entirely hypothetical situation I'll be prosecuted?.....eventually. They might even be on their way now. Should I stop posting? Too late.

But that shouldn't lead to police officers investigation tweets quickly deleted a year ago. Where is the evidence that AP would harm or is grooming anyone?

Exactly. It's ridiculous. She posted an inadvisable tweet, she thought better of it, she deleted it. Unless it was a threat to murder someone or similar, that should be the end of it.

If what you are saying is a direct called to action ('kill the unbelievers', 'punch the terf', etc.),

Before they were pressured into charging him, ISTR the police did try to claim that was Sarah Jane Baker's "free speech" and they didn't need to take any action.

Until NCHIs are abolished the police will use them no matter how many cases they lose or what guidance is issued. It's that simple.

I agree.

Breaking news is that the Police have announced No Further Action.

I'm so pleased for her.

Hopefully, with it being such a high profile case, lessons will be learnt and the police will get a grip.

I don't share your optimism. As others have said they are an easy way to massage figures / targets with the added bonus of virtue cookies if it's that sort of force.

https://freespeechunion.org/police-drop-investigation-into-fsu-member-allison-pearson-over-tweet/

Both stories on BBC news front page!

The police may have dropped the case but the papers aren't letting this drop, the mail are getting bolder with their attacks on the police.

Police probing the 'name Leonard' as a 'hate' incident https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14112601/Police-probing-child-classmate-smelled-fish-Rottweiler-Leonard-hate-incidents.html?ito=native_share_article-nativemenubutton

Am I wrong to think that this might finally end the polices stassi power trip

The Evening Standard website is also taking an interest

Two stories about ridiculous instances in the last week that I've seen, and I don't read it every day.

And now think tanks are calling for NCHIs to be scrapped

Scrap 'non-crime hate incidents', Labour is urged https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14121445/Police-wasting-60-000-hours-year-non-crime-hate-incidents.html?ito=native_share_article-nativemenubutton

Yes, Barker made a direct call to commit violence against a specific group of people (with a protected characteristic) very clearly much more dangerous and direct incitement to violence than APs immediately deleted tweet and yet the response was totally different.

Then they try and pretend there is no "two tier" approach, but we can see it directly with our own eyes. It's all getting a bit Orwrllian.

That was my quote and I chose the 2nd example very deliberately.

Apparently Cooper wants coppers to use their common sense 😃

https://archive.ph/ziRDj

https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/home-office-issues-common-sense-guidance-for-non-crime-hate-incidents-xqvlqlmgt

She is working with the College of Policing, which provides police forces with guidance on operational matters, and the National Police Chiefs’ Council to develop a new approach to the recording of NCHIs that will lead to more consistency and that is driven by “common sense”.

Lord Hogan-Howe in the article does spell out what the original intention was for NCHI

The original intent around NCHIs was well-intentioned — to try and spot incidents that might lead to racist attacks and crime in the future.

As i've stated upthread i think they're being used to placate complainants and/or to punish people that officers may have took against.

The lack of consistency is amply demonstrated by the disparity in the numbers of NCHI issued by different forces.

The Essex force recorded 21.5 NCHIs per 100 officers last year, three times the rate of the Metropolitan Police, four times that of Greater Manchester police and ten times that of West Yorkshire police.

Oh yes, common sense has worked really well so far when it comes to NCHIs and policing in general 🙃 😏

Plod needs explicitly set out rules and standards or Plod will push things as far as they can because they seem to be very much of a ‘something must be done’ mindset these days and can’t just leave things alone (unless they’re burglaries or car theft or sexual assault).

Now this is ridiculous

https://archive.ph/b1PUr

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/11/26/record-nchi-even-if-victim-does-not-think-it-is-one/

Under a section titled “investigation tips”, the Lancashire Constabulary briefing read: “Does ANYONE perceive the incident/crime to be motivated by prejudice or hostility?
“The perception may come from anyone (family member, neighbour, support worker, comms operator, attending officer etc).

Perhaps put it to a poll on twitter BlueSky? Read the entrails of a recently slaughter chicken? Toss a coin? As a last resort look round for anyone with a septum piercing and/or interestingly coloured hair and ask they/them.

Just adding this article from Spiked. If you think that the policing of 'hate' is a bit much then it's a good summing up of where we are and how we got here. If you don't agree, well then it isn't

https://archive.ph/QtfEb

https://www.spiked-online.com/2024/11/29/pc-police-how-britain-fell-to-the-new-censorship/

Having finally worked out that Pearson lives in Essex, the cops then handed the case over to Essex Police, who decided the tweet represented a possible public-order offence. Namely, spreading material ‘likely or intended to cause racial hatred’ – a far more serious crime than had previously been considered. Carrying on like a Stalinist version of the Keystone Cops, Essex Police not only sent those two officers round on Remembrance Sunday, but they also set up a so-called gold group, typically used to coordinate a police response to major incidents like terror attacks. All this, over a year-old tweet, which had already been deleted.
Essex Police have been so thoroughly humiliated by all this that there is now going to be an independent review into their handling of the case, led by the ‘hate-crime lead’ of the National Police Chiefs’ Council. Roger Hirst, Essex’s police and crime commissioner, has also had to eat his words. Having, at first, defended the investigation to the hilt, he’s now put out a rueful statement, noting the ‘significant distress for Ms Pearson and a large amount of public concern’ caused by the case.

I have no difficulty believing this.

wrt Essex, earlier this year I was looking at Women’s Independent Advisory Groups for the Police (I was following up information for the PCC elections). I was thinking about applying for one.

I Googled for Police Women’s Independent Advisory Group in my county. They don't mention a women's group but do say they want to hear from people who feel that their community’s voice is underrepresented in dialogue with their local /county police.

I suggested this to a friend who also Googled. And has reported back with this tweet and news (she's in Essex).

‘I believe the College of Police is inherently corrupted by gender ideology'
'Recently, a man named Clare, Head of the Independent Advisory Group to Essex Police, said women with gender critical views should be treated as terrorists’
- Sarah Phillimore, Co-founder WeAreFairCop

https://twitter.com/GBNEWS/status/1769464221874434067

Essex seems primed to accept ideology in an unquestioning manner.

Just updating the thread with this article rather than starting a new one

https://archive.ph/gzlkw

https://www.thetimes.com/uk/crime/article/non-crime-hate-incidents-are-crucial-to-policing-says-former-chief-dvkxt68m3

The example he gives where he believes NCHIs would have helped is in the deaths of Fiona Pilkington who killed herself and her severely disabled daughter after ten years of harassment by neighbourhood children.

I'm struggling to understand how giving this poor woman another avenue through which the Police could fail her would have helped.

If I get a chance, I'll read the following report and see if it makes it explicable

www.report-it.org.uk/files/ipcc_report-fiona-pilkington-leicestershire.pdf

That family were plainly at the end of their tether. After those wretched events and the outcome, I hope the son found refuge elsewhere with people who cared for him then and now he must be in his early 20s.

I've had a quick scamper through the report. Amidst the many problems that it highlights, I can't see that NCHI reports would have made a difference given the systemic issues and the lack of care towards, or understanding of, the family and their multiple vulnerabilities.

Although Fiona Pilkington and her family were clearly vulnerable for a number of reasons it should not be overlooked in the first instance Fiona Pilkington was a member of the local community who was reporting incidents of crime and anti social behaviour and simply asking the police to carry out their responsibilities. Ultimately, Leicestershire Constabulary failed in delivering those responsibilities.
…
What the officers failed to recognise and address was the difference between general anti social behaviour and harassment. Officers should have seen how this was affecting the Pilkington family and not from the officer‟s own point of view and „experience‟ of what the area „was like‟.

I'd have understood Basu's point better if he'd pointed to an example of how NCHIs been used positively to deter crime or divert progress to undesirable behaviour. Tricky, but they've been available for some time and I'd like to think there's some evidence of their effectiveness. Re: Essex (see Pearson above and the Independent Advisory Group to Essex Police), I see reports that they recorded 1500 NCHIs in a 2 year period although it seems that this may have diverted resources from answering non-emergency calls.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14100397/police-investigating-journalist-online-post-non-crime-hate-incidents.html

The family had complained 33 times to Leicestershire police about a group of up to 16 youths who had harassed Francecca, who had severe learning disabilities, for ten years.

Surely this level of harassment would amount to an actual crime? How would logging it as non-crime have helped this family? Do several non-crimes turn into an actual crime after you have so many recorded against your name?
5 non-crimes = 1 actual crime.

Absolutely it's about power and not much else.